Gender dysphoria and autism

[Cocha]

Please I am interested to know if anyone knows the reason why there are a disproportionate number of autistic girls who are trans or non-binary. Perhaps someone who has some knowledge in this area might be able to explain?

Not how the autistic advocate describes masking.

Lgbtq spaces embrace those who feel they don't fit in.

@Cocha

She said that autistic people are less likely to be swayed by societal ‘norms’ and are therefore more definite about their inherent gender identity.

This is what my daughter says.

Nah. She may not be being swayed by gender stereotypical norms. But she's being swayed by the oh so special LGBTQIAA+ fitting in with an extra special group, not like those other girls etc instead!

And I totally get it. I'm quite sure I would have been the same. And I thank fuck I'm not a teenager now.

Well if she feels special and happy that's a far better place to be than if she'd been herself in the 80s which some posters seem to think was so much better. Im quite sure she would have struggled to fit in in my leafy grammar school anyway

I'm glad she's happy. I hope she stays happy, in her mind and with her body, and doesn't think she needs to go changing anything about herself.

That is purely what my worry is about.

What does being non binary meant to her, OP? What is the difference between her identifying as female and identifying as non-binary? What does it "free" her from?
I'm really curious. Is it just a case of not conforming to the stereotype of what a girl / woman is?

@HoodieHoodie

I’m autistic. I wanted to be a boy from quite a young age - maybe 8 or 9. Looking back I think it’s because no one told boys to put uncomfortable clothes on, or that they should look like a girl and play with dolls etc. I was allowed to have short hair and mainly wore my brother’s cast-offs. It was the 80s so not an issue.

If I was a child/teen now with all the rigid gender stuff going on I can only imagine the distress.

Body changes at puberty made everything worse. I was very overweight, which also didn’t help. I was isolated.
Trying to picture how it would play out if I was going through that now -
If online groups accepted me I would have fully embraced it and would have defended them to death, illogical bonkers ideology or not.
If there was any chance of halting puberty and the changes that came with that I’d have wanted it wholeheartedly, no hesitation.
All the issues I had as a teen I would have been able to pin, obsessively, on being in the wrong body.
Every case I’ve read about a trans girl I can retrospectively relate to.

I grew out of feeling like this in my early twenties. If someone had asked if I feel like a woman I’d probably say no, I just feel like me.

I know so many autistic women who went through similar as a teen. Not one is looking back and wishing they’d been able to transition, all without exception is relieved to have grown up decades ago and bypassed it all.

It rankles that organisations such as the NSA have accepted gender ideology as fact, ignoring the many letters sent by people by me. Its heartbreaking to think of the number of autistic girls who will be damaged because asking any questions is “transphobic”.

You've hit the nail on the head! 👏

I would love to know too, but outrageously there has been no research as to why 25% of girls on Tavistockbooks are diagnosed autistic with another 25% suspected autistic. It is a scandal.

I do not believe it is a cause an effect. The relationship is more nuanced. I believe autistic girls are more susceptible to gender ideology.

Autistics can be very black and white in their thinking. It only takes a comment from someone at school to get them questioning and there are plenty of websites where you can get the answers to am I trans. E.g an autistic girl has short hair due to sensory issues and someone comments are you a boy.

My daughter is autistic but very much gender critical and can't understand the other side denying biology so it can go both ways.

Tony Atwood (international expert on autism and girls) did a lecture on why transitioning doesn't 'cure' autism. This isn't the video I've watched but assuming it covers the same content.

There are plenty of gender critical autistics out there (I'm a member of a private group) but as you can imagine it is very hard for them to be 'out'.

I've mentioned on this board before about the fawning of parents whose autistic girls are transitioning. My views are not welcome even when posters want to hear both sides and I recommend Transgender Trend or Bayswater Support, but recommending Mermaids is applauded.

Here is an interview with Tony Attwood calling for an inquiry.
bioedge.org/uncategorized/inquiry-needed-into-link-between-aspergers-and-gender-dysphoria-australian/

This needs urgent research but sadly the National Autistic Society are signed up to gender ideology.

Accepting that the not fitting in feeling as a state of being, when you think you have found a 'solution' must be hard.

A magic pill to fix the difference and have an easier life, removal of doubts, explanation for the gap.

I feel sorry for all the young people seizing drugs and surgery, who then find that they feel the same and that they feel the same way but with health problems

Following this with interest. My daughter is autistic and non binary also. She's just 13.

@Signalbox

My autistic teen’s clinician told us that around 80% of all trans/non binary people are also autistic. She explained that it wasn’t because they were confused/didn’t know their own minds/were trying to fit expectations, but in fact the opposite. She said that autistic people are less likely to be swayed by societal ‘norms’ and are therefore more definite about their inherent gender identity.

That's a bit shocking. I was convinced I knew my own mind when I was 15. I didn't anticipate how much my sense of self would change throughout my life.

It's assuming that gender identity is in fact some kind of fixed internal thing.

But you can make almost the same explanation without that - maybe autistic kids who prefer culturally non standard things for their sex are less likely to want to conform anyway. Adding in some "gender identity" explanation is just adding an unneeded element without any evidence to support it.

The sticking point seems to be that these kids are somewhat less likely than same age peers to realize that the boundaries around expected behaviours aren't as strict as all that. There are lots of gnc women and to the point where actually a lot of them aren't even thought of that way particularly.

Why we'd choose a conclusion based on the existence of something there is no real evidence for rather than one that seems to fit in with the experience of autistic girls more general I do not know.

What does being non binary meant to her, OP? What is the difference between her identifying as female and identifying as non-binary? What does it "free" her from?
I'm really curious. Is it just a case of not conforming to the stereotype of what a girl / woman is?

I will ask her this, it's a good question. I don't want to risk pushing her away by asking lots of questions that make her think I am not on her side so I will let you know when it comes up again rather than me keep asking her

I worry about this for my dd moving forward. She is 9 and finds it hard to get on with girls, boys are more straight forward easier to read . Relationships with girls are more complicated. She played with boys at preschool and she still prefers the company of boys she also loves playing football and is good at it.
Most of her clothes come from the boys section because of sensory issues she hates things that are tight or frilly and fussy.
As she gets older I worry about how difficult it is going to be for her to fit in socially.

For me, the sticking point is would all these autistic kids, more girls than boys, feel they’re NB/trans/gender free etc if there was no social media? No YouTube with acolytes talking ecstatically about their transition, no Instagram posts declaring the beauty of trans, no ‘community’ to join? And no bloody adults earnestly affirming the same. I’m pretty sure what my answer is. So I’d disagree about the not being swayed and say it’s the complete opposite.

@DrBlackbird

For me, the sticking point is would all these autistic kids, more girls than boys, feel they’re NB/trans/gender free etc if there was no social media? No YouTube with acolytes talking ecstatically about their transition, no Instagram posts declaring the beauty of trans, no ‘community’ to join? And no bloody adults earnestly affirming the same. I’m pretty sure what my answer is. So I’d disagree about the not being swayed and say it’s the complete opposite.

I was a teen way before SM days and to a certain extent still felt like this. SM has undoubtedly exploded things and given vulnerable teens an outlet for these feelings, instead of being isolated and suffering alone. I can completely understand why autistic girls are so caught up in this, because tbh there isn’t really an alternative to feel part of a supportive group.

Yes you’re right HoodieHoodie that there are girls/boys that have always had feelings like this and I’d want you and others to have support.

But I’m talking about the massive escalation in numbers of young teen girls feeling this way, who, in IMO would not have issues around gender or their sex, but for SM. They may well still feel ‘other’ or ‘different’ but they’d never question their biology. Or seek to dramatically change it.

@DrBlackbird I imagine because it’s part of a group where they feel accepted coupled with increasingly rigid gender stereotypes - it’s no longer ok for a girl to have short hair and be a girl.

How many adult women, not just autistic ones, fit rigidly on the Mermaids barbie/gi joe scale? How many youngsters are feeling the pressure to conform into neat little boxes in a way that just didn’t happen 10/20/30 years ago?