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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to word that as a feminist I feel it damaging that gender is just stereotypes.

11 replies

Purplependant222 · 07/02/2022 19:55

I need help with communicating my beliefs:

Gender isn’t shaped by clothing and I’m 100% offended by a bloke stuffing a bra with a pair of socks, wearing a matted wig manufactured by barbie, wearing an outfit inspired by cat slater and boasting the confidence to be ‘her’ true self. Then with praise of ‘you’re beautiful girl’ ‘you go girl’.

I’ve fallen on that side if TikTok, swipe past these types on bumble and have been chatted up by these ‘lesbians’.

I’m sad that gender is becoming female = feminine and male = masculine.

I’m trying to vocalise that I don’t support the current trans movement as it’s damaging to the feminism battle of removing gender stereotypes by reinforcing that feminine = female.

More focus should be that as humans we don’t need to associate stereotypes to genders, and just because you wear a dress doesn’t make you a woman —being paid less, being catcalled and not being safe to walk alone— is what being a woman is, not prancing around in a pair of high heels.

Why should businesses be bending over backwards to be trans inclusive while women are still sitting out of the boardroom or worried to walk home in the winter?

I have a lot of friends who have swallowed the cool-aid and while i’m not intending to challenge their beliefs I want to pragmatically explain why I’ll never stating my pronouns.

OP posts:
lovelyweathertoday · 07/02/2022 20:06

This is partly why I never argue that "sex is completely different to gender" because the two are linked.

Gender relates to stereotypes based on a person's sex. Gendered expectations of women are things that women have been socialised to do or like. A man doing the same is just expressing a preference, it has nothing to do with women or femaleness.

A man can imitate the gendered expectations of women but that's all it is. A man is not female or a woman in any way.

Linguini · 07/02/2022 20:11

You're talking about sex.
Sex is whether a baby is born one sex or another.
Gender is whether you wrap your baby in a blue or pink blanket.

Gender ideologists will argue till they're blue or pink in the face, that sex is irrelevant and all that ever matters is whether or not a person really really wants a blue or pink blanket.

This is what's creating all the shit and destroying women's sex based rights while upholding damaging and harmful gender based stereotypes.

FemaleAndLearning · 07/02/2022 20:59

I think businesses bend over backwards because it is a cheap way to show inclusivity, though in my opinion it excludes women. Also it is cheap to focus on this than something like disability inclusivity that costs more money to make accommodations.

Sex and gender are two different things and focusing on sexist stereotypes is not progressive. People telling my daughter she must be trans because she wears trousers and has short hair is an example. Saying you have to be a boy to fancy girls, deliberately confuses gender and sexuality. Also I don't feel like a woman, I am a woman.

I think gender identity ideology is a belief system. Saying transwomen are women goes against my belief that human beings cannot change sex. I whole heartedly agree that anyone can wear what they like, dress how they like and call themselves what they like, but that shouldn't mean men who present in this way can access women's sports, prisons, refuges and rape crisis centres.

IvyTwines · 07/02/2022 22:08

I thought this, from Twitter, has it in a nutshell: "Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."

Abitofalark · 07/02/2022 23:24

You don't need any help! You already know what's wrong with it - you've said it: wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. You could have added... any more than your wearing trousers makes you a man. That's obvious to anyone, isn't it? And suppose you took away clothes altogether. Live naked and natural and everyone would know immediately who is female and who is male.
The problem isn't gender. It's gender identity ideology - which seeks to conflate gender with the concept 'identify as'. It's notional, not real. You can't 'identify' into something you are not, such as sex / gender, which is material reality. We are real creatures. We bear our nature, our sex / gender throughout our lives in everything we live and experience. We cannot invent and 'identify as' something we are not just because we might wish it. You can wear this or that and alter or remove bits of your body and whatnot to simulate something other but you will still not be a different sex / gender.

Purplependant222 · 07/02/2022 23:45

“Women have campaigned for hundreds of years to reach the point that we can study, have careers and have the choice to be more than just a house wife.

From a gender reveal a baby is either pink or blue, a girl called beautiful and a boy strong. Lego, telescopes and dinosaurs for boys or kitchen sets, dolls and dress up kits for girls. Boys have action man to be brave, macho and adventurous and girls have princesses to be saved, beautiful and caring.

Why shouldn’t boys be able to cry, play with babies or dance without being called girly or frowned at.

Men are more likely to go in stem than women because of the toys they played with. Women still more likely to make up the workforce as nurses, teachers, childcare still the most lowly paid.

Women until recently had to pick between a career or being a wife. A decision a man never had to choose. Women used male names, had research, books and music released under their husbands or even a hundred years ago hid their true identities as they had to dress as gentlemen to exists out of the homes.

Women are choose what we wear, we’re able to choose between skirts or trousers and men should be able too.

God we should scrap all stereotypes and people should be able to express themselves however they like without feminine = female and masculine = male.

It seems like we’re going back a few decades for women who reject female stereotypes (because duh, not every girl can be bothered with long hair or wouldn’t be seen dead in a dress) shouldn’t automatically be referred to as ‘they’ just because their gender doesn’t want to be presumed - because they don’t come across as being female? Reinforcing the female stereotype.

Together as a society we should be removing stereotypes, making it acceptable to express yourself, less men would be suffering from mental health in silence and girls being encouraged to be adventurous. That’s what our priorities should be and at the moment we’re papering over the cracks”.

Then if the age old “but gender is assigned at birth/trans committing suicide/trans people not being safe” -

‘Imagine being able to express yourself without having to label yourself, or feeling you’re letting down your parents by not being the stereotypical male/female….’

There is a problem with transpeople being beaten/murdered by men and more should be done to protect them. 93% of people world wide are murdered by men, with over 80% of women in the U.K. being murdered by men - don’t worry as a woman I understand what it’s like to feel intimidated by men and something I’ve experienced since I was 12. We should be campaigning for men to be taught how to control their anger from a young age for all spaces to become safe. But until that happens a lot of women are experiencing trauma and need safe spaces.

But trans women are women.

I find it dangerous that male/female is based upon stereotypes. Until recently women couldn’t participate in sports, participation in team sports that were stereotypical male have only really taken off in the last few years and it will be disappointing for women to loose their place to those who just follow female stereotypes but still have the advantage of being born male. Wouldn’t it be better to advocate for more inclusivity in sports for people to express themselves, as sports should be about fairness or being the best in category?

I know that I’ll still be branded a terf, but I need to tread carefully as it could mean falling out with friendship groups, or worse being penalised at work. But I’ve had enough of men having their needs trumping women time and time again - now they’re bringing in the pronouns at work and friends usually passionate with important worldly issues fixated on trans rights.

OP posts:
Linguini · 08/02/2022 14:41

Purplependant222

Stick around. You'll pick up a few tips to help you navigate the gender ideology problem. It's hard but worth it and we are getting there.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 09/02/2022 01:43

@IvyTwines

I thought this, from Twitter, has it in a nutshell: "Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."
Yes, that sums it up surprisingly well.
jellyfrizz · 09/02/2022 10:14

It constantly amazes me how sexist the whole concept is. It comes down to believing that men and women have fundamentally
different brains/minds/ways of being other than the physical body.

When you think about how offensive this is if replaced with other bodily differences (disability or skin colour for instance) it's unbelievable how the concept is thought to be progressive in any way.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/02/2022 15:42

Gender is the social expectations that are imposed on the sexes in terms of actions and emotions. Those expectations are structured to favour those who hold the most power, in this case men. So gender rather than freeing up self expression, limits self expression into prescribed categories. Gender creates a set of arbitrary rules as to how you must perform within society. Those rules do not serve my interests nor my sense of self as they are imposed to meet the needs of others.

As simple approach is to ask people why? Why is liking pink feminine- pink is just a colour. Why is long hair feminine when historically and in some cultures today long hair is male feature etc.

crazyjinglist · 09/02/2022 15:46

I thought this, from Twitter, has it in a nutshell: "Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."

Oh that's very good!

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