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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

PM blocks attempt to limit free speech of MPs

15 replies

DdraigGoch · 06/02/2022 16:37

Chris Bryant's standards committee tried to include a clause requiring members to promote inclusion and diversity. It appears as if the PM will be blocking it.

It comes after TRAs complained about speeches made in the Lords, speeches which were protected by Parliamentary Privilege, so the complaints should have been dismissed out of hand.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/05/boris-johnson-reject-new-principle-respect-no-10-shake-up/

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 06/02/2022 16:58

They've all massively fucked up imo. If they'd done all this with women's rights as their cause everyone would be sick to the back teeth of us by now and even we'd be saying 'I say, steady on a bit'.

FOJN · 06/02/2022 17:26

I can't read the article but the proposal is part of a package of reforms set forward in this document which is dated November 2021, so predates the complaints about comments made in the Lord's, I think.

I agree with most of the proposals so it's a shame that they have included one which tries to control speech in the HoC and HoL. I wonder if all the proposals have to be agreed as a package or whether they will be considered individually? If it's a package then the cynic in me thinks the controlled speech proposal is intended to sabotage the whole thing to protect members from a requirement for greater transparency about other income streams.

committees.parliament.uk/committee/290/committee-on-standards/news/159262/committee-announce-proposed-package-of-reforms-to-tighten-lobbying-rules/

delurkasaurus · 06/02/2022 17:32

Part of the article says:

"Whilst the Government does not consider it necessary to adjust the descriptors specifically in relation to MPs or peers, a source said “we think it is of overarching importance to emphasise tolerance of different viewpoints and protect free debate when considering any changes”.
“We would not want to stifle legitimate debate on politically contentious issues which are important to our democracy – as an indirect consequence of the proposed new requirement for anti-discriminatory attitudes or demonstrating inclusion and diversity.
“This could have a chilling effect on free speech on contentious and polarised political issues.”
The source said such provisions risk generating “partisan complaints” that could degrade the debate on contentious matters of policy."

Hard to disagree with that. Given the fact that the Nolan Principles seem to have been so easily shoved aside when certain politicians were/are in thrall to the concerted efforts to dismantle sex-based rights, it is not fantasy to think that adding this new one would do anything other than destroy those rights while defending that destruction by going "ah but DIVERSITY".

Tiltawhirl · 06/02/2022 17:54

It’s like self ID isn’t it… more getting ahead of the law.. trying to ban speaking about something even before anyone gets to decide whether it should be or is illegal.

Alekto · 06/02/2022 18:00

Archive of Telegraph article archive.fo/6ZaYB

SantaClawsServiette · 06/02/2022 19:44

[quote FOJN]I can't read the article but the proposal is part of a package of reforms set forward in this document which is dated November 2021, so predates the complaints about comments made in the Lord's, I think.

I agree with most of the proposals so it's a shame that they have included one which tries to control speech in the HoC and HoL. I wonder if all the proposals have to be agreed as a package or whether they will be considered individually? If it's a package then the cynic in me thinks the controlled speech proposal is intended to sabotage the whole thing to protect members from a requirement for greater transparency about other income streams.

committees.parliament.uk/committee/290/committee-on-standards/news/159262/committee-announce-proposed-package-of-reforms-to-tighten-lobbying-rules/[/quote]
Or it's the other way round, they hope this would get lost among the other stuff. It's a common enough tactic.

JustSpeculation · 06/02/2022 19:51

This is the proposal:

Adding an 8th Principle of “Respect” to the Seven Principles of Public Life reflected in the Code of Conduct, to abide by the Parliamentary Behaviour Code and demonstrate anti-discriminatory attitudes and behaviours through the promotion of anti-racism, inclusion and diversity.

The seventh principle already requires respect, in a general "we know it when we see it" way. So why do they need an extra principle? The suggested addition requires MPs to demonstrate a specific ideological position. Anyone questioning it could, by doing so, put themselves in breach of the rules. It would become impossible to deny systemic racism, for example, if your model of society saw racism as a matter of individual attitudes rather than a collective social feature. It would be positively un-inclusive to claim that women are adult human females.

To pre-empt an obvious reply, yes, most certainly it is a specific ideological position, for at least two reasons. First, the packaging together of anti-racism, inclusion and diversity as the important "anti-discriminatory attitudes and behaviours" while ignoring sexism, misogyny, religious sectarianism and so on is an emphasis which clearly shows what the drafters think is important. Second, it ignores the fact that sometimes there are reasons to exclude people and restrict diversity. The whole area of safeguarding depends on it.

So maybe it can be rephrased. Something more general. Something which doesn't try to define acceptable content. Something like "Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own behaviour and treat others with respect."

Which is what it already says in principle number 7.

SantaClawsServiette · 06/02/2022 19:56

There are already rules about conduct in the House.

I would just be so so wary of anything that limits what MPs are able to talk about.

delurkasaurus · 06/02/2022 20:03

It's incompatible with Parliamentary privilege. I have to wonder if it's been proposed, knowing this and knowing it'll get rejected, so that there can then follow a hissy fit about "rejecting diversity" or some such.

nauticant · 06/02/2022 20:12

If you want to get an idea of what the Committee on Standards is like, have a look at Ian Hislop giving evidence a week or so back:

Not late at night though, with your blood pressure through the roof, it might mess up your sleeping soundly.

FOJN · 06/02/2022 21:24

That video is depressing to watch. We have MP's asking a journalist how to fix what is essentially corruption within politics and they come across as too stupid to have even considered the obvious suggestions.

If this reflects the intelligence of your average MP we are fucked.

Or it's the other way round, they hope this would get lost among the other stuff. It's a common enough tactic.

I think that's a possibility but without the "limiting speech" proposal they have no legitimate means to reject the proposals for more transparency without looking even more corrupt than they already do but protecting their right to debate freely without language restrictions is defending democracy, how very honourable of them.

SantaClawsServiette · 07/02/2022 03:46

It's a bit heads I win, tails you lose.

Artichokeleaves · 07/02/2022 07:28

@Tiltawhirl

It’s like self ID isn’t it… more getting ahead of the law.. trying to ban speaking about something even before anyone gets to decide whether it should be or is illegal.
Where 'getting ahead of the law' is a nice euphemism for 'trying to avoid and control democracy to force a political agenda without permitting scrutiny or resistance'.

If it can't be done democratically, with the general public behind it, and in keeping with the rights of others as with every other rights issue , then obviously there's something majorly wrong with it.

highame · 07/02/2022 09:23

Chris Bryant, nice guy but clearly not happy with women's rights yet because most of the discussion he is unhappy with was about women's prisons and TW in them. At least I think so and if so, Wes Streeting's comment that TRA need to tone it down, is all blending nicely into what Labour thinks and that Rosie Duffied is an outlier

Bosky · 08/02/2022 03:04

@highame

Chris Bryant, nice guy but clearly not happy with women's rights yet because most of the discussion he is unhappy with was about women's prisons and TW in them. At least I think so and if so, Wes Streeting's comment that TRA need to tone it down, is all blending nicely into what Labour thinks and that Rosie Duffied is an outlier
Chris Bryant MP - Rhondda www.chrisbryant.org.uk/

@MerchedCymru have you seen this?

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