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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Possibly good things happening at EHRC.

51 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/02/2022 13:21

Reading this Vice piece ( www.vice.com/en/article/bvnymd/ehrc-staff-quitting-transphobia ) critically it seems as if the EHRC is beginning to realise what it's job actually is, and is beginning to implement changes to achieve this.

Staff described board members changing their work – making the documents “transphobic and seriously inaccurate”

I assume this means the words woman / women / female are being used instead of vagina haver.

One ex-employee said: “I was seeing our upcoming publications and guidance pushing for trans rights being changed – or completely scrapped and shelved permanently – meanwhile the Board was building links to anti-trans groups. It was awful.

Translates as EHRC are making sure their advice and campaigns aligns with the actual law, and that they are consulting with people representing all protected characteristics and reflecting a range of opinion.

Staff are being pushed to not be so ‘woke’, and forced to be more impartial

Impartiality is a good thing surely?

The EHRC was established in 2007 by the then Labour government to monitor human rights in England, Wales and Scotland, and to enforce equality laws based on protected characteristics, such as sexuality, gender reassignment, race and religion.

Translated as these are the most important characteristics and we should really ignore the others?

They added: “For me, there was suddenly this new kind of emphasis on the need to be ‘evidence based’. But that doesn’t mean we weren’t collecting evidence before – we’ve always had people employed as researchers, and we have staff with lived experience too.

Surely evidence based rather than anecdote based is a good thing?

All in all it sounds as if the EHRC is escaping its former policy capture and beginning to try and do its job properly?

OP posts:
Goatsaregreat · 04/02/2022 19:21

I think them losing the plot like this is brilliant. People and groups shouting all the quiet bits out loud and making clear their determination to enforce their ideology via threats and intimidation. It's everywhere - and the general public are deeply unimpressed

They need to crack on - their contributions are invaluable Grin

DoubleYouOhEmAyEn · 04/02/2022 19:30

Oh how very dare they meet with the LGB Alliance! There's no T and there are lesbians who don't like ladydick so they must not be allowed to express an opinion.

Fuck me, they lack any kind of critical thinking skills or respect for half the population.

Jux · 04/02/2022 19:39

🤣🤣🤣

Artichokeleaves · 04/02/2022 19:53

There really needs to be some form of help for people who become this distressed and overwhelmed by the idea of female humans being allowed rights too .

It's not healthy.

VestofAbsurdity · 04/02/2022 20:11

[quote rabbitwoman]Has anyone seen this letter on twitter?

A few academics have put together what must be an open letter and they are calling for signatures....

twitter.com/ThorneNat/status/1489613571839430663?t=sKW-Zl1AlgEELnWeFiYXJw&s=19[/quote]
That letter is tantrum central comedy gold.

They demand, just who the fuck do they think they are? Who voted them in as Supreme Leader?

SwissBall · 04/02/2022 20:12

Does Ben Hunte write on any other topic?

N0Name · 05/02/2022 00:45

What exactly is behind the ME ME ME culture, lack of critical thinking and inability to see anything from other than one’s own perspective? I honestly despair for the future!

YaIz · 05/02/2022 02:28

@VestofAbsurdity

Who voted them in as Supreme Leader?

Perhaps the “principals of equality” mentioned in the letter.

DdraigGoch · 05/02/2022 02:44

@Justme56

Funny when they piled off the list of protected characteristics they didn't include 'sex'.
You'd think that a (former) employee of the Equality and Human Rights Commission would be familiar with the Equality Act, wouldn't you?

The quotes just sound like one big tantrum.

JustSpeculation · 05/02/2022 09:17

@N0Name

What exactly is behind the ME ME ME culture, lack of critical thinking and inability to see anything from other than one’s own perspective? I honestly despair for the future!
I'm not sure it is. I mean, there's a lot of "me,me,me" in it, but I think there's more to it. I've been following this for a couple of years now, and to me it looks like this:

TRA "Isn't this wonderful and glorious and brave?"
GC: "But it doesn't work. Because, women."
TRA "But it's wonderful and super and so inspiring. You are motivated by hatred."
GC: "No, we're not. It just doesn't work. It's not true, and it puts us in danger. Here's why."
TRA: "Our perception and lived experience outweigh your truth, which is only your truth.We see no danger so there isn't any."
GC: "Look. Evidence. Boundaries. Safeguarding."

And so on, descending into histrionics and absurdity on one side and frustration on the other. And this creates a situation which malignant people can exploit.

It so much brings to mind Robert Pirsig's distinction between romantic and classical thinking, and how in some ways they can be mutually exclusive.

I was going to paste an enormous quote from "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" but it was too long. It is on Page 34, if anyone's interested.

Artichokeleaves · 05/02/2022 11:08

@N0Name

What exactly is behind the ME ME ME culture, lack of critical thinking and inability to see anything from other than one’s own perspective? I honestly despair for the future!
As being discussed on another thread here, the immaturity, the inflexibility and the naiivity plus the lack of self awareness is stark. We urgently need competent adults back in leadership positions, and to help these kidults to do some growing up. The irony is that they call themselves 'woke'.... yet waking up to some wider realities and emotional capacities is exactly what is urgently needed!
RobotValkyrie · 05/02/2022 19:00

@Justme56

Funny when they piled off the list of protected characteristics they didn't include 'sex'.
Funny but predictable...

However, I find even more disturbing the fact that disability isn't mentioned either. Women are vulnerable, but disabled people even more so. Am thinking for instance of the autistic kids getting groomed into trans ideology.

yourhairiswinterfire · 05/02/2022 20:38

Good thread from FPFW.

There has been much outrage amongst transactivists this week in response to the EHRC announcements about Scottish GRA reform and Conversion therapy. Plus shock that EHRC has met with stakeholders such as Fair Play For Women.

Many are angry that women are now considered stakeholders in policies regarding sex and gender. They see this as evidence that EHRC is now "transphobic".

Many point the finger at the new EHRC Chair Kishwer Falkner and her appointment by W&E Minister Liz Truss.
.

What they don't know is that we have, of course, been active stakeholders for many years now.

EHRC invited Fair Play For Women to a roundtable meeting about the GRA on 17th August 2018.

So EHRC was already engaging with gender critical groups under the leadership of Chair David Isaacs and CEO Rebecca Hilsenrath. Isaac's former role was chair of Stonewall.

Likewise, Government Equalities Office was meeting with gender critical groups ahead of GRA reform back in 2018, under the leadership of Penny Mordaunt, W&E Minister.

FPFW met with GEO multiple times, our first meeting being 22nd June 2018, long before Liz Truss took over.

Transactivists are shocked by this sudden, unexplained shift toward impartiality. Truth is it's been the result of a long process of serious and professional engagement by new women's advocacy groups. We have won arguments and changed minds. And we will continue to do so.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1490014675819499523

PearPickingPorky · 05/02/2022 20:57

[quote yourhairiswinterfire]Good thread from FPFW.

There has been much outrage amongst transactivists this week in response to the EHRC announcements about Scottish GRA reform and Conversion therapy. Plus shock that EHRC has met with stakeholders such as Fair Play For Women.

Many are angry that women are now considered stakeholders in policies regarding sex and gender. They see this as evidence that EHRC is now "transphobic".

Many point the finger at the new EHRC Chair Kishwer Falkner and her appointment by W&E Minister Liz Truss.
.

What they don't know is that we have, of course, been active stakeholders for many years now.

EHRC invited Fair Play For Women to a roundtable meeting about the GRA on 17th August 2018.

So EHRC was already engaging with gender critical groups under the leadership of Chair David Isaacs and CEO Rebecca Hilsenrath. Isaac's former role was chair of Stonewall.

Likewise, Government Equalities Office was meeting with gender critical groups ahead of GRA reform back in 2018, under the leadership of Penny Mordaunt, W&E Minister.

FPFW met with GEO multiple times, our first meeting being 22nd June 2018, long before Liz Truss took over.

Transactivists are shocked by this sudden, unexplained shift toward impartiality. Truth is it's been the result of a long process of serious and professional engagement by new women's advocacy groups. We have won arguments and changed minds. And we will continue to do so.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1490014675819499523[/quote]
That's an excellent thread, and good to know.

Women have had to play the long game. The long, reasonable, truthful, and evidence-based game. Glad it's starting to pay off, and thank you to Dr Nic and FPFW.

Goatsaregreat · 05/02/2022 21:40

Well done FPFW - again.

There's an added pleasure in seeing the tantrums every time men discover that women are speaking and being listened to. They have no idea how revealing their fury is.

Artichokeleaves · 06/02/2022 11:18

Women having a voice is 'transphobic'
Women being stakeholders and given a say and any hearing in matters that fundamentally affect them is 'transphobic'
Women having sex based rights to prevent their exclusion and to ensure their equality of access is 'transphobic'.

How can anyone say that this political ideology is not harmful to women?! It gives the impression that the biggest threat to the ideology is anything that risks women successfully standing up to subordination!

Artichokeleaves · 06/02/2022 11:22

And frankly, if my having equal rights and equal voice to male and TQ+ people as opposed to a subordinated one is 'transphobic' of me, then really, whatever now. Because no, I'm not presenting myself for sacrifice. Not enabling that. And whatever names anyone feels they have to call me for requiring to be treated as an equal human, they can crack on. It says a hell of a lot more about the name caller than it does about me.

ScreamingMeMe · 06/02/2022 22:13

If a better woman than me can actually stand to watch it, LOJ had Ben Hunte and Katy Montgomerie on his YouTube show to discuss this massive scandal Hmm

SolasAnla · 06/02/2022 23:54

RobotValkyrie
However, I find even more disturbing the fact that disability isn't mentioned either. Women are vulnerable, but disabled people even more so.

Think about it.

The drive to remove Gender Dysphoria as a medical condition, elements of which could fall under the disability PC. GD form part of the assessment for the GRC
Without the medical element the NHS provision of healthcare would be a misuse of public funds.

But its "gatekeeping"

TheGreatATuin · 07/02/2022 06:48

[quote ScreamingMeMe]If a better woman than me can actually stand to watch it, LOJ had Ben Hunte and Katy Montgomerie on his YouTube show to discuss this massive scandal Hmm

[/quote] So three male people put out a YouTube show complaining about the 'scandal' of the main statutory human rights body saying that women also have human rights that have to be taken into account. What's the difference between a TRA and an MRA again?
ScreamingMeMe · 07/02/2022 07:31

voidifremoved.substack.com/p/vice-smears-the-ehrc

In which we see:

There weren't any "leaked emails", they were FOI requests
EHRC has met with Stonewall too
EHRC attended trans round-tables in 2019
Ben Hunte is a shit journalist (ok, that's me saying that)

Sophoclesthefox · 07/02/2022 07:43

[quote YaIz]@VestofAbsurdity

Who voted them in as Supreme Leader?

Perhaps the “principals of equality” mentioned in the letter.[/quote]
I had to read this twice Grin

Very much enjoyed FPFW pointing out how long they have been engaged with the EHRC, which makes it pretty difficult to lay the blame at the feet of Falkner and Truss. I assume that the prior management will now be excoriated for their hideous anti trans bias?

No? How no? Hmm

DomesticatedZombie · 07/02/2022 10:03

three male people put out a YouTube show complaining

I watched a tiny bit of this fact-free ridiculous opinion fest. But in the end, I couldn't stand to see two male people complain about how horrible women were for doing feminism wrong.

DomesticatedZombie · 07/02/2022 10:10

Flowers yes, thank you to FPFW and Dr Nic for that thread, and all of your patient, painstaking work.

DomesticatedZombie · 07/02/2022 10:13

Good blog here from Helen Saxby

notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2022/02/01/the-ehrc-listens-to-women/

'The length of time it has taken for women’s rights to be considered in this debate has been frequently frustrating, but in one sense it has benefited the case being made. The more time that it takes, the more examples come to light, not just from the UK but from all over the world, which illustrate the unintended but highly predictable consequences of legislation which makes sex a matter of personal choice rather than a material reality. Well publicised stories of males winning women’s swimming races, males assaulting women in prison, academics being hounded out of university careers, and many others, just keep coming. No wonder the EHRC’s call for ‘more consultation’ has sent the trans lobby groups into such a tailspin.'