Pronouns at work

[WinterAsh]

Hi all

I'm in HR and usually sit in on our equality and diversity committee. I missed the last meeting and we've just had a message to everyone on our work slack from the head of the committee saying that to show awareness we should add our pronouns onto our slack names and we should then share the message (to add pronouns) with colleagues.

I really don't want to. What would you do? I don't want to offend this person (they are trans) but I'm not comfortable adding my pronouns. Trans rights etc are within my remit in HR so I need to tread carefully here.

Thanks

This is really helpful. Thank you for sharing.

That was for the Sex Matters link.

we should then share the message (to add pronouns) with colleagues.
This is the bit that really gives me pause, actually. Why are colleagues being given the responsibility to share (or not) this policy, rather than it being issued by management?

@IntermittentParps well quite. I actually checked with the directors and they knew nothing about it!

@thevassal… it is just my opinion but I think it is unlikely that a trans person who is not yet ready to declare their status and change in gender would really feel intimidated by this.. instead I think they would be encouraged. Relying on ‘others’ like those with learning difficulties and English as a second language to support my own position that I do not want to be associated with gender politics and have stereotypes imposed upon me feels lazy, deflecting and also not addressing the core of the problem which is that by stating pronouns, I am implying that I associate with the socially constructed stereotypes that are imposed on me.

[quote WinterAsh]@IntermittentParps well quite. I actually checked with the directors and they knew nothing about it![/quote]
That's so dubious. I wouldn't spend any more time thinking/worrying about it until/unless you got word from the directors about it being a policy thing and to be disseminated.

[quote WinterAsh]@IntermittentParps well quite. I actually checked with the directors and they knew nothing about it![/quote]
You and all the other employees pronouns are "we the organisation".
People sometimes forget that they work for the organisation not themselves. Their actions represent their employer and their authority comes from their role.

The individual pushing this has a personal bias for a policy which has liability risks for your employer.

For HR, the branch of management which is designed to align individuals into a cohesive team, to push individuality is counter-productive. "Team players" are less likely to generate interpersonal conflict, which in turn should make the work environment better.

PC classes are legaly protected classes. It is basic professional failure staff in HR to request that employees publicly place themselves in a specific class. First it removes the organisations ability to claim that they had no interest or knowledge.
Second the organisation create a hostile environment by "outing" people in a PC.

@Whereareyourshoes

I work for a social justice organisation so pronouns are rife. One of our non binary colleagues requested we introduce ourselves with pronouns at the start of meetings to which another gender fluid member of staff replied she/they found it very distressing to be asked to choose one pronoun. Awkward.

If everyone just ignores the pro nouns request and sagely nods at anything that's said the they's should eventually consume themselves and we will all be able to return to normal.

One of my HR colleagues has flagged that it is voluntary (whilst adding hers in), and it doesn't appear to have spread that far yet. Interestingly most of the people adding pronouns so far are male.

@WinterAsh

One of my HR colleagues has flagged that it is voluntary (whilst adding hers in), and it doesn't appear to have spread that far yet. Interestingly most of the people adding pronouns so far are male.

Would that be the group of people with least skin in the game and possibly also those who are feeling aware of privilege and a sense that they ought to do this without exploring further as to whether there are unintended consequences?

I always remember this comment and think it might apply more generally to other occupations and levels of seniority:

The vast majority of judges are decent men. They want to do the right thing. They also tend to be MC, white and privileged with little to no understanding of the… issues raging.

It’s a dangerous combination. They don’t want to say or do the wrong thing so they lap up the training given by lobby groups, legitimately believing in what they’re told and genuinely fearing that they might actually be bigots when they find this stuff doesn’t make sense.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4379444-Maya-back-in-court-tomorrow-20th-Oct?msgid=111785546

I thought HR was supposed to stop bullying, not encourage it

@JoodyBlue

I think make the argument for optional and then don't add yours. If questioned you can simply refer back to the optional argument and know that you are modelling the non-mandatory nature of the request for those who don't want to. You are representing the whole organisation and not just your trans colleagues (although they should be represented too). There will be people in your workplace who don't to do this. Both approaches need support.

I think this is a good way to do it - showing that it’s not compulsory.

If pushed, I’d also say that I am a very private person and choose not to share any personal information on my email signature thank you.

[quote ChateauMargaux]@thevassal… it is just my opinion but I think it is unlikely that a trans person who is not yet ready to declare their status and change in gender would really feel intimidated by this.. instead I think they would be encouraged. Relying on ‘others’ like those with learning difficulties and English as a second language to support my own position that I do not want to be associated with gender politics and have stereotypes imposed upon me feels lazy, deflecting and also not addressing the core of the problem which is that by stating pronouns, I am implying that I associate with the socially constructed stereotypes that are imposed on me.[/quote]
In relation to your first point, you may be interested in this www.askamanager.org/2021/06/my-office-wants-my-pronouns-but-im-still-figuring-it-out.html where there is someone who says exactly that.
I saved it when I read it because generally that site is woker than woke and VERY pro-trans (JKR is the devil etc) but even the site runner agreed there were issues with compulsory pronoun specifying.

Like coming out as gay, I don't think many people wake up knowing they are trans and are immediately ready to declare it to everyone they meet, but spend quite a bit of time thinking about it, telling one or two trusted people first etc. To me it makes a lot of sense that people would feel bullied into making a declaration, and like they'd let themselves/the team down if they didn't.

This happened at my work and I just said I wouldn't do it while sexism still exists

I think the whole "share your pronouns" thing is a load of nonsense. I use pronouns based on sex and will continue to do so.

@latetothefisting… I feel that relying on a fictional person who might feel those things, but buy into gender politics, is disingenuous when it would be more honest to stand up for the vast majority of women, who feel that gender politics will disadvantage and harm them, especially if you fall into that category one’s self.

I would warn my senior colleagues that encouraging pronoun declaration is a dangerous territory. This is a highly polticised, divisive and controversial topic currently.

The Forstater ruling confirms legal protection for beliefs that are generally called "gender critical". If the company is (even unintentionally) creating a less favourable environment for those with GC beliefs by encouraging pronoun declaration it could be facing a tribunal at some point.

It's a bit like the company encouraging you to put "Jesus Saves" in your email signature, but saying "it's not mandatory but would make Christians feel accepted".

How might a Muslim or Buddist feel about that? Would they have a case against the company?

I don't know what the culture is like where you work, but if you have trusted, senior decision makers I would be talking to them privately and recommending impartial legal advice (especially if you've already made any communication to staff about prounouns).

If you are told that this is a harmless, kind and inclusive thing to do then beware!

Declaration of pronouns is a highly charged and heavily loaded thing to do. It is far from neutral.

I believe we are going to see a great many tribunals in the near future.

@WinterAsh

Hi all

I'm in HR and usually sit in on our equality and diversity committee. I missed the last meeting and we've just had a message to everyone on our work slack from the head of the committee saying that to show awareness we should add our pronouns onto our slack names and we should then share the message (to add pronouns) with colleagues.

I really don't want to. What would you do? I don't want to offend this person (they are trans) but I'm not comfortable adding my pronouns. Trans rights etc are within my remit in HR so I need to tread carefully here.

Thanks

Most people in my company do it, even the men at the top.....but I and a few others haven't. No one has questioned it yet.

They have the right to put whatever they want on their own signatures, but they do not have the right to decide how I should define my own identity.

To the men doing this, it doesn't cost much (except a few raised eyebrows maybe). To women, many are aware of what it's associated with and they don't want to pay the career costs of being associated with regressive gender stereotypes.

[quote ChateauMargaux]@latetothefisting… I feel that relying on a fictional person who might feel those things, but buy into gender politics, is disingenuous when it would be more honest to stand up for the vast majority of women, who feel that gender politics will disadvantage and harm them, especially if you fall into that category one’s self.[/quote]
This is how I feel too.

They have the right to put whatever they want on their own signatures, but they do not have the right to decide how I should define my own identity.

Do they though? Surely in a corporate organisation your email signature is supposed to be an approved format of the necessary information and no more: your position, department, contact details.

It's not a place to start customising it with irrelevant personal details. At work, your personal identity, political allegiance, religion, marital status, views on Brexit or Scottish Independence, your mental health issues, your sexuality, your race - none of this sort of information should ever be added onto your email signature, it's shocking.

Well said PearPickingPorky.