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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paul Wragg, media law professor, thinks the Court of Appeal "failed free speech" in Miller v College of Policing Case. Think he's a bit biased...

16 replies

WeeBisom · 02/02/2022 20:46

I found this article interesting because it's on a very well regarded media law blog.

inforrm.org/2022/01/26/the-unbearable-loudness-of-cancellation-how-the-court-of-appeal-failed-free-speech-in-miller-v-college-of-policing-paul-wragg/

It's pretty amazing how biased Wragg is, and he doesn't seem to realise. Wragg doesn't think the police coming to your door to chastise you for a 'non hate crime incident' has any chilling impact on free speech whatsoever, and moans that the Miller case is all to do with right wing 'cancel culture'.

Some choice parts from the article: "the Court took its first misstep by categorising Mr Miller’s speech as an important contribution to a debate of public interest. In doing so it elevated both the speech itself (which the High Court had concluded were, collectively, ‘opaque, profane, or unsophisticated’) and the underlying debate – that trans women are not women – to the level of academic respectability by stating, repeatedly, that Mr Miller’s denigration of trans women is a credible contribution to public debate because it is shared by Kathleen Stock, amongst others, a former professor at the University of Sussex. It is deeply regrettable that the Court of Appeal would so readily embrace a position on a deeply divisive issue in favour of those that trumpet repressive politics and, worse, that it would imbue it with the imprimatur of academic respectability by proffering the views of an individual who is, at best, a controversial figure."

This is quite something. Apparently the debate whether trans women are really women is not 'academically respectable', because Kathleen Stock is a 'controversial figure' (my background is in academic philosophy, and there are many controversial philosophers like Peter Singer. Nevertheless, even though they are controversial they are still regarded as tip top academics. Stock is like that. She is controversial, but her credentials are impeccable.) Well, Prof. Wragg has certainly made it clear what side he is on!

The article then ends with this rather overdramatic point: "For those directly affected – the transitioned, the transitioning, and their loved ones – the daily grind of hostility towards them as they try to find themselves, to live their life, whilst asking for nothing more than compassion, is unbearable. To now find that the Court of Appeal – a supposed bastion of liberal principle –dignifies this senseless, abhorrent abuse and denigration of trans women and calls it ‘important’ legitimate debate on a matter of public interest is as devastating as it is inexcusable. Truly, the decision is a travesty of justice."

It's obvious to me what is going on here. Wragg is deeply sympathetic to the trans cause and obviously believes they are really women. Thus, any mocking, or unkind language towards trans women cannot be tolerated and the normal rules about article 10 free speech rights (that even offensive and shocking speech is protected) must go out the window. Usual legal principles must be warped and bent to protect trans individuals feelings at all costs, even if the price of this is members of the public being interrogated by police for posting a tasteless poem directed at no one in particular. There is no right to have nothing but compassionate speech directed at one's protected group (and lord knows women know this all too well. )

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Thelnebriati · 02/02/2022 21:00

When did cancel culture become right wing? And is he permitted to use the College of Policing badge like that?

teawamutu · 02/02/2022 21:02

Wragg is deeply sympathetic to the trans cause and obviously believes they are really women.

Deeply sympathetic, sure.

A believer, dunno. I always find the unfailing ability of TRAs and allies to prioritise the MK2 penisy kind of 'woman' suggests they know exactly what's what really...

aliasundercover · 02/02/2022 21:06

Wragg is deeply sympathetic to the trans cause and obviously believes they are really women

He says he believes they are women, but of course he doesn't - nobody does.

HelloKeith · 02/02/2022 21:17

@aliasundercover

Wragg is deeply sympathetic to the trans cause and obviously believes they are really women

He says he believes they are women, but of course he doesn't - nobody does.

I imagine he's got lots to say about women being sent death and rape threats online then? And being killed at the rate of 3 a week? And all the other sorts of actual horrible things that actually happen to those other sort of women? And he's speaking up about that? Oh, no? What's different about this sort of woman then that they need him to stand up for them?
WeeBisom · 02/02/2022 21:18

Right, you would think that he would be deeply concerned with threats to free speech from the state, so why he thinks this is right wing is anyone's guess. And good points about his 'belief'. In fact, his deep protests may make it clear that he doesn't really believe.

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Justme56 · 02/02/2022 21:22

I see he retweeted the vice article. Obviously some free speech is allowed but not others.

nauticant · 02/02/2022 21:26

What would be Wragg's position if someone said unkind things about women? Would he still believe that authoritarianism was an appropriate response?

teawamutu · 02/02/2022 21:38

@nauticant

What would be Wragg's position if someone said unkind things about women? Would he still believe that authoritarianism was an appropriate response?
Boring old MK1 cunty kind or MK2 new and improved penisy kind?

Because I think the answer will vary.

DinosaurOnlySpaces · 02/02/2022 22:42

For those directly affected – women, girls, and their loved ones – the daily grind of misogyny towards them as they try to live their life, whilst asking for nothing more than compassion, is unbearable.

Fixed that.

DontLikeCrumpets · 03/02/2022 00:46

@teawamutu "penisy kind of 'woman' "

LOL! I'm gonna steal that! What does MK2 refer to?

m

teawamutu · 03/02/2022 08:18

[quote DontLikeCrumpets]@teawamutu "penisy kind of 'woman' "

LOL! I'm gonna steal that! What does MK2 refer to?

m[/quote]
Mark 2. New and improved. As opposed to we boring old Mark One cervix-havers.

highame · 03/02/2022 08:48

the daily grind of misogyny towards them but is it misogyny though

dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women, so far as I am aware, this word has never been about trans

terryleather · 03/02/2022 09:09

Yet another privileged man righteously riding to the defence of men who demand that we call them women, rather like one Jolyon Maugham.

BlahBlahBlah mate, you're chatting shit - the lessers can see you.

WeeBisom · 03/02/2022 13:06

I had to quit Twitter because I encountered really horrendous online abuse (rape and death threats), and yet I would be deeply uncomfortable with the police knocking on someone’s door because they posted a sexist poem. It’s just nuts to me that he thinks the prospect of the police talking to you doesn’t have a chilling effect on free speech and wouldn’t scare most people into silence.

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JustWaking · 04/02/2022 09:08

For those directly affected – women, girls, and their loved ones – the daily grind of misogyny towards them as they try to live their life, whilst asking for nothing more than safety and fair treatment, is unbearable.

Liked your fix DinosaurOnlySpaces. Just one little tweak. We're actually not even asking for people to #bekind to us. After generations of oppression, our bar is far lower Sad

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 04/02/2022 09:23

Yet another privileged man righteously riding to the defence of men

That’s it. I wonder if his readership is starting to notice the gulf between this hyperbolic concern for trans people and the total unconcern for women? He’s really piling it on. Maybe the cracks are starting to show.

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