Val McDermid, what a woman!

[viques]

Val McDermid is a longtime supporter and sponsor of Raith football club. She has withdrawn her support -and her money - from the club because they have recently signed a man with a conviction for rape, despite assurances to her from the Chair that they wouldnt.

The brave woman he and another player raped , Denise Clair, had to take out a private prosecution and give up her right to anonymity to secure the conviction.

I am so pleased that so many people are supporting Val and the stand she is making.

She was interviewed on Woman’s Hour today 2.2.22, the last item .

And the reason he was signed?

Because he is a “proven goal scorer”.

So ner ner ner to the Raith junior girls football groups, the woman’s teams, the female supporters, the local outreach programmes, your feelings don’t matter, only goals matter.

Both ladies are courageous and amazing

Good for her.

More impressively, the women's team's captain has also resigned. VMcD saves money by withdrawing her support, Tyler Rattray, the women's captain, risks income and career.

I totally agree with you. She's made a magnificent stand.

But...he doesn't have a rape conviction (there's another rant right there because he most certainly should!) and also, she is not the only one who has made this stand.

The women's team captain resigned yesterday and it looks like the whole women's team have now abandoned raith rovers twitter.com/MargotMcCuaig/status/1488829573273899008?cxt=HHwWgMCy4fqmsakpAAAA

Wow. to the women's team captain and the whole women's team. You have my admiration and solidarity.

Bloody hell so he has 'footballing ability' and is a 'proven' goal scorer so it's all good?

I'm a bit fucking cynical but is there a chance the use of 'proven' is a nasty wee dig, given its a term in Scots law?

I feel for Denise Clair and have no time for these seemingly increasing amount of footballers whose behaviour is disgusting. But I think it's difficult. Someone has sued him for rape and won but the standards that she will have needed to meet will be lower than in a criminal case. So technically he doesn't have a criminal record.
But even if he did, if he'd then done his time, are we saying that rapists should never be allowed to work? That they should forever live on benefits provided by the taxpayer?

Val MacDermid and all the others who have stood up and been counted are amazing
I read the court procedings of his civil case. It was vile. It beggars belief the police didn't find enough evidence to prosecute. Plus he has 2 convictions for assault.
As for whether someone can work again?
A professional football player is not just a sportsman they are seen as a role model and as a representative of their club. So of course they can get a job but professional football player probably shouldn't be one of them.

@madisonbridges

I feel for Denise Clair and have no time for these seemingly increasing amount of footballers whose behaviour is disgusting. But I think it's difficult. Someone has sued him for rape and won but the standards that she will have needed to meet will be lower than in a criminal case. So technically he doesn't have a criminal record. But even if he did, if he'd then done his time, are we saying that rapists should never be allowed to work? That they should forever live on benefits provided by the taxpayer?

Maybe rapists who express regret for the pain and hurt they have caused , who have shown that their behaviour and attitude has changed, who are actively working to ensure that other people are taught about the damage that occurs when rape culture is seen as OK, then maybe that person is employable . But probably not in a role where they are expected to uphold values of decency, fair play and sportsmanship, to provide leadership for younger players and club supporters, to take part in outreach programmes on schools .

Young male footballers are highly paid people , often afforded high status by their fans, they need to understand that if they want the kudos of the role they have to accept the responsibility that comes with it.

Kudos to Val and the women's team for taking an ethical stance.

But if he showed regret for raping her, he'd be admitting raping her and opening himself up to a police prosecution. Obviously, that's even if he's the sort of person who does feel any remorse.

I get fully that footballers are sort of role models but footballers do all sorts of disgusting behaviour that is undesirable for youngsters to follow and they never get dropped from teams, not even the national team, for that. If you say that some jobs are to be held to a different standard than others, how do you define which fall into which category. Is it right that he's not allowed to be a footballer where he'll mostly come into contact with men, but it's OK for him to do admin work in a large company where he'll be with lots more women.
It's not that I have sympathy with him or think that they should employ him. Ched Evans was eventually acquitted of rape but his actions that night were still totally disgusting. I loathe that he still plays professional football, but should he be banned when he has no conviction against him?
I just never find these things so black and white.

I really admire the women's team for making a stand here.
The fact that he wasn't found guilty in a court of law means nothing to me. Rape convictions are so disgustingly low that the vast majority of rapists never see the inside of a court. Those that do are generally let off. When the system fails women again and again, they have to make their own fight.

@madisonbridges

But if he showed regret for raping her, he'd be admitting raping her and opening himself up to a police prosecution. Obviously, that's even if he's the sort of person who does feel any remorse.

I get fully that footballers are sort of role models but footballers do all sorts of disgusting behaviour that is undesirable for youngsters to follow and they never get dropped from teams, not even the national team, for that. If you say that some jobs are to be held to a different standard than others, how do you define which fall into which category. Is it right that he's not allowed to be a footballer where he'll mostly come into contact with men, but it's OK for him to do admin work in a large company where he'll be with lots more women.
It's not that I have sympathy with him or think that they should employ him. Ched Evans was eventually acquitted of rape but his actions that night were still totally disgusting. I loathe that he still plays professional football, but should he be banned when he has no conviction against him?
I just never find these things so black and white.

Yes, unsavoury as it sounds, and probably nigh on impossible to enforce but some jobs should be held to a different and higher moral standard than others, in fact we already do this for teaching and many other public office roles, financial services, medical provision and other professional employment though not always consistently - which is another issue.

IMO football and other sporting roles should be included because sportspeople have very high profiles among young very impressionable people, especially young boys. They are often portrayed as successful people with extravagant lifestyles, style, and material wealth , seen by young people as desirable attributes to emulate . Unfortunately if this is accompanied by irresponsible and entitled behaviour, in this example negative and damaging attitudes towards women , then the line between what is acceptable and not acceptable can be confusing to young minds . It’s ok to own a super car costing a quarter of a million pounds, it is not ok to drive it in a way that endangers other people. It is ok to have a drink in a nightclub with a pretty girl it is not ok to assume that she wants to come back to your hotel room and have sex with you and your team mates.

Many professional footballers are only a few years older than their fans, they need to be helped to realise that they have a unique standing in the eyes of many young people, the way they behave sends messages that go further than the turnstiles at the football ground.

There is a petition here to have him removed for anyone who would like to sign it.

www.change.org/p/raith-rovers-football-club-remove-david-goodwillie-from-raith-rovers-and-re-establish-the-team-as-a-family-club?redirect=false&fbclid=IwAR0ghBYPE1rRrRFW7Vi-rg5pTjmxn8-BbUN1lTVsdEymxiWIqD6C1gDphOo

I've always admired Val McDermid - well done to her for making this stand.

is this the guy who says he only lost the civil case because he didn't realise he needed to reply or something like that?

or am I thinking of someone else?

The player hasn't shown remorse or understanding. He claimed in court that the only thing he did wrong was leave after having sex, rather than stay the night. He has stated that if he had stayed, when she woke she would not have felt worried and disoriented and then thought she was raped, as she would have seen him and remembered what had happened.

He gave no explanation for where her clothes were and why every single item of clothing she was wearing just disappeared, as did the two men who raped her. She woke alone, naked, in a strange house in an area far from home and unknown to her. With no recollection of the night before but very clear signs of sexual assault and in pain. Hmmm.... but he just needed to have stayed the night to make that go away?

I think it’s 98% of rapes that do lead to conviction. Which is insane.

*do NOT!

I think the recent figures were worse - 1.6% of rapes resulted in charges being brought. Charges. Not all charges will result in convictions. There are no words for how appalling this is.

@Igmum

I think the recent figures were worse - 1.6% of rapes resulted in charges being brought. Charges. Not all charges will result in convictions. There are no words for how appalling this is.

Just read that the RR Chair has apologised, they are looking into cancelling the rapists contract!

Well, they've said he won't play. Wondering if they still have to pay him though!