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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights

73 replies

PandorasMailbox · 31/01/2022 07:48

Better late than never I guess...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c6297412-8223-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=300db08c191baf7e6d29bbfd8ee3f7c2

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14
grumpyfeminist · 31/01/2022 20:30

I have a Times subscription. It says the article has been removed. There is also an Alex Massie comment piece which references this story and the comments are disabled on that piece too. Curious.

OldCrone · 31/01/2022 20:44

You can still see it archived here (for now)

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220131005146/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-scotland-accused-of-bias-in-battle-over-transgender-rights-gz3h9lrm0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220131005146/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-scotland-accused-of-bias-in-battle-over-transgender-rights-gz3h9lrm0

An archived version of another deleted article in a different paper disappeared from the archive yesterday, so this one may do the same.

Albatrossing · 31/01/2022 20:53

Thanks OldCrone -- it's still not appearing for me unfortunately, but this may be more to do with my tech-idiocy than the link you gave!

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 31/01/2022 20:57

WTF article removed & not on archive?!
What's going on?
Legal stuff?

OldCrone · 31/01/2022 20:59

It's not you Albatrossing, it's gone.

ValancyRedfern · 31/01/2022 21:02

Just when you think things can't get any more sinister...

Igneococcus · 31/01/2022 21:07

The Alex Massie comment is gone too.

Hoardasurass · 31/01/2022 21:09

Oh god I'm going to have to dust off the old tinfoil hat here but wtf is going on up here

QueenSue · 31/01/2022 21:10

WTAF Shock

Chilver · 31/01/2022 21:10

I could read it in archive?

Goatsaregreat · 31/01/2022 21:11

Don't think I've seen an article been removed like this before? Some people are very invested in keeping some things under the radar - which is why we're in this mess.

ArabellaScott · 31/01/2022 21:12

Gone from the archive?

Igneococcus · 31/01/2022 21:15

Was the Alex Massie piece archived?

MidsomerMurmurs · 31/01/2022 21:15

@Lovelyricepudding

What is the police's opinion on disabled parking places? Are they illegal? A hate crime?
Presumably they’re fine but available for anyone who identifies as disabled. Self ID of course, no debate, no blue badge necessary. And in fact people who self ID as disabled are really the most disabled group in history ever. They’re simply expanding the envelope of disability.

As for the deletion of the Times article(s), tin foil hats are not needed. The rank corruption in Scottish public life (including police and journalism) is beyond satire now. Those deletions have SNP interference all over them.

ArabellaScott · 31/01/2022 21:16

@Chilver

I could read it in archive?
If you can see it can you screen shot it?
OldCrone · 31/01/2022 21:21

@Igneococcus

Was the Alex Massie piece archived?
I've found it on archive dot is, but you can only see the first paragraph because whoever tried to archive it didn't have full access to the article.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/policing-hurtful-speech-is-a-threat-to-liberty-s32kcjqq2

Igneococcus · 31/01/2022 21:24

Bloody heck, can the SG really bully a national newpaper like this? I'd like to hear some explanation from the Times.

Somanysocks · 31/01/2022 21:24

It takes 8 screenshots, will try as not playing ball at the moment.

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Somanysocks · 31/01/2022 21:25

Next lot

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
oldwomanwhoruns · 31/01/2022 21:25

Britain’s leading equality watchdog has been formally asked to launch an investigation into Police Scotland amid claims of bias in the ongoing battle over trans rights.

The campaign group Fair Play for Women has urged the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate whether Police Scotland is in breach of its public sector equality duty to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not.

The campaign group pointed out that the Equality Act states that “having due regard to the need to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it involves having due regard, in particular, to the need to tackle prejudice and promote understanding”.

As revealed by The Times on Saturday, Nicola Murray, 43, director of Brodie’s Trust, was visited by the police because of a policy statement she posted on social media confirming that the charity would not refer women to Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) because it “is a female-only service and ERCC is not”.

Murray founded Brodie’s Trust to support women from all over the world “who’ve suffered pregnancy loss through domestic violence or forced termination” by directing victims to local services for help.

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The charity relies on the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act to offer its services exclusively to people born female. In contrast, ERCC is a transinclusive service provider.

Murray was visited by two police officers in November when she was reported for hate crime after stressing Brodie’s Trust’s female-only services.

That followed Mridul Wadhwa, the ERRC chief executive officer and a trans woman, stating that rape survivors would be “challenged on their prejudices”.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Ritchie said of the officers’ visit: “Hate crime and discrimination of any kind is deplorable and entirely unacceptable. Police Scotland will investigate every report of a hate crime or hate incident.”

Fair Play for Women claimed that the comment was “inaccurate and misleading”. Nicola Williams, the group’s director, said: “The Equality Act 2010 sets out that discrimination can be lawful when that discrimination is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. The statement made by Police Scotland . . . conveys the meaning to the public that service providers who lawfully discriminate on the grounds of sex are themselves deplorable, and it suggests that use of the single-sex exceptions is in some way unlawful.

“Police misrepresenting the law in this way is a serious matter. The idea that service providers are in any way deplorable and acting unlawfully is likely to foster bad relations between potential service users who are included and those who are excluded, as well as fostering bad relations with the service provider itself.

“It is also reasonable to expect this police statement would have a ‘chilling effect’ on other service providers who wish to lawfully provide female-only services. Thus, fettering the ability of service providers to choose the most appropriate, and least discriminatory, service to their target service users.”

The Equalities and Human Rights Commission last week warned the Scottish government against simplifying the law on gender recognition. It also indicated that new guidance on single sex spaces in relation to the Equality Act 2010 was also imminent.

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Police Scotland said it did not want to comment on the complaint by Fair Play for Women. A spokesman also reiterated Ritchie’s statement.

Chilver · 31/01/2022 21:25

Below is the article copied from the archive (wasn’t sure how to screen shot so just copied text)

“Britain’s leading equality watchdog has been formally asked to launch an investigation into Police Scotland amid claims of bias in the ongoing battle over trans rights.

The campaign group Fair Play for Women has urged the Equality and Human Rights Commission to investigate whether Police Scotland is in breach of its public sector equality duty to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not.

The campaign group pointed out that the Equality Act states that “having due regard to the need to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it involves having due regard, in particular, to the need to tackle prejudice and promote understanding”.

As revealed by The Times on Saturday, Nicola Murray, 43, director of Brodie’s Trust, was visited by the police because of a policy statement she posted on social media confirming that the charity would not refer women to Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) because it “is a female-only service and ERCC is not”.

Murray founded Brodie’s Trust to support women from all over the world “who’ve suffered pregnancy loss through domestic violence or forced termination” by directing victims to local services for help.

The charity relies on the single-sex exceptions in the Equality Act to offer its services exclusively to people born female. In contrast, ERCC is a transinclusive service provider.

Murray was visited by two police officers in November when she was reported for hate crime after stressing Brodie’s Trust’s female-only services.

That followed Mridul Wadhwa, the ERRC chief executive officer and a trans woman, stating that rape survivors would be “challenged on their prejudices”.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Ritchie said of the officers’ visit: “Hate crime and discrimination of any kind is deplorable and entirely unacceptable. Police Scotland will investigate every report of a hate crime or hate incident.”

Fair Play for Women claimed that the comment was “inaccurate and misleading”. Nicola Williams, the group’s director, said: “The Equality Act 2010 sets out that discrimination can be lawful when that discrimination is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. The statement made by Police Scotland . . . conveys the meaning to the public that service providers who lawfully discriminate on the grounds of sex are themselves deplorable, and it suggests that use of the single-sex exceptions is in some way unlawful.

“Police misrepresenting the law in this way is a serious matter. The idea that service providers are in any way deplorable and acting unlawfully is likely to foster bad relations between potential service users who are included and those who are excluded, as well as fostering bad relations with the service provider itself.

“It is also reasonable to expect this police statement would have a ‘chilling effect’ on other service providers who wish to lawfully provide female-only services. Thus, fettering the ability of service providers to choose the most appropriate, and least discriminatory, service to their target service users.”

The Equalities and Human Rights Commission last week warned the Scottish government against simplifying the law on gender recognition. It also indicated that new guidance on single sex spaces in relation to the Equality Act 2010 was also imminent.

Police Scotland said it did not want to comment on the complaint by Fair Play for Women. A spokesman also reiterated Ritchie’s statement.”

Somanysocks · 31/01/2022 21:26

Last 2

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
ArabellaScott · 31/01/2022 21:26

Gone from there, too, OldCrone. At least, is for me.

grumpyfeminist · 31/01/2022 21:48

I got most of the Alex Massie column. I’ll try to post in order, but the screenshots go in this order (first word):

Headline
hyperbolic
Bigoted
Third - next post
Today - next post

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
grumpyfeminist · 31/01/2022 21:49

Screengrab asap before they get zapped

Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights
Police Scotland accused of bias in battle over transgender rights