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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Update to Stonewall dictionary

8 replies

aweegc · 22/01/2022 22:42

Stonewall appear to have updated their glossary. It seems it now recognises biological sex (in the "gender" category) and is no longer explicit about homosexual people being those who "identified as" a man/woman.

It would appear to me that they're trying to be less overt - I don't for one second believe that when they say "woman" they are referring to biological sex.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/list-lgbtq-terms

Gay
Refers to a man who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men. Also a generic term for lesbian and gay sexuality - some women define themselves as gay rather than lesbian. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term.
Gender
Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.
Lesbian
Refers to a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term.

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 22/01/2022 22:50

When do you think it was amended OP?

It seems to be that same definition last October
<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20211025114621/www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/list-lgbtq-terms" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20211025114621/www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/list-lgbtq-terms

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 23:00

Gender
Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

That's fairly reasonable. I even can see that 'gender' is assigned at birth. But not sex, which is determined at conception, of course.

aliasundercover · 22/01/2022 23:09

Maybe they've realised that nobody was listening to them, that you cannot simply redefine words and expect everyone to go along with it unquestioningly.

ANewCreation · 22/01/2022 23:11

"Homosexual
This might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used."

This still implies that same sex orientations are about being attracted to someone's masculinity or femininity.

Nope.

bishophaha · 23/01/2022 00:05

@ArabellaScott

Gender Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

That's fairly reasonable. I even can see that 'gender' is assigned at birth. But not sex, which is determined at conception, of course.

Blimey!! I've been asking on here for a LONG time (of the trans people that post here/allies) whether it's broadly to do with masculinity and femininity and none would answer!

I think that's a decent stab at an explanation I can understand.

Gender is culturally determined due to stereotypes placed upon the two sexes.

(If you don't feel you fit the stereotypes, is it your gender or your sex that is wrong, or the stereotypes? I think that's where I disagree with SW)

Bosky · 24/01/2022 08:18

Stonewall Glossary 2017 in

A VISION FOR CHANGE
Acceptance without exception for trans people 2017-2022

www.stonewall.org.uk/vision-change

Gay – refers to a man who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men. Also a generic term for lesbian and gay sexuality - some women define themselves as gay rather than lesbian.

Gender – often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

Lesbian – refers to a woman who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women.

Gender dysphoria – used to describe when a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their sex assigned at birth and their gender identity. This is also the clinical diagnosis for someone who doesn’t feel comfortable with the gender they were assigned at birth.

Gender expression – how a person chooses to outwardly express
their gender, within the context of societal expectations of gender. A person who does not confirm to societal expectations of gender may not, however, identify as trans.

Gender identity – a person’s innate sense of their own gender, whether male, female or something else (see non-binary below), which may or may not correspond to the sex assigned at birth.

Gender reassignment – another way of describing a person’s transition. To undergo gender reassignment can include undergoing some sort of medical intervention, but it can also mean changing names, pronouns, dressing differently and living in their self- identified gender. Gender reassignment is a characteristic that is protected by the Equality Act 2010, and it is further interpreted in the Equality Act 2010 approved code of practice. It is a term of much contention and, as identified on page 30, is one that should be reviewed.

Person with a trans history – someone who identifies as male
or female or a man or woman, but was assigned differently at birth. This is increasingly used by people to acknowledge a trans past.

=====

That last one seems to suggest that in addition to "Cisgender" and "Transgender" that there is yet another state of being that is . . . "Beyond Trans"!

Of course there is.

Martine Rothblatt: A Founding Father of the Transgender Empire

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3960435-Martine-Rothblatt-A-Founding-Father-of-the-Transgender-Empire

This post by OldCrone in that thread quotes Stephen Whittle making the link between the GRA2004 and the disembodiment of transhumanism:

"For the Gender Recognition Act, the body is irrelevant"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3960435-Martine-Rothblatt-A-Founding-Father-of-the-Transgender-Empire?msgid=98091953

Trans - ??? Martine Rothblatt and Transhumanism title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4279965-Trans-Martine-Rothblatt-and-Transhumanism-title-edited-by-MNHQ-at-OPs-request

====

The 2017 Glossary in A VISION FOR CHANGE does not include a definition of "homosexual".

Possibly because the word "homosexual" is not mentioned anywhere in the document? I don't know because the document is not searchable and I am damned if I am going to read the whole thing to find out.

Or perhaps because the "Vision for Change 2017-2022" included the erasure of homosexuals by 2022?

The 2017 Glossary sub-set of "Vision for Change" is the usual garbled nonsense with "sex" and "gender" both being "assigned at birth". There is an improvement by 2022 (or whenever) in the main LGBTQ+ Terms in that the definition of "gender dysphoria" refers to "sex assigned at birth" rather than "gender assigned at birth".

The definitions of "gay" and "lesbian" are the same now as they were in 2017 and I would suggest could just as easily be interpreted as "homogenderal" rather than "homosexual".

  • Neither "homosexual" nor "heterosexual" can exist as sexual orientations or identities proper in the current definition because, of course, according to Stonewall, TWAW and TMAM:

Heterosexual/straight
Refers to a man who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women or to a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men.

Homosexual
This might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used.

Someone has slipped up though because "sex" has slipped back in through the gender-net with "Pan"!

Pan
Refers to a person whose romantic and/or sexual attraction towards others is not limited by sex or gender.

More seriously, despite concerns being expressed and stats being shared in 2003 during debates on the Gender Recognition Bill as it passed through Parliament, there is still no mention nearly 20 years later of DETRANSITION and TRANS REGRET.

This, more than any tinkering with wording and addition of boutique "Queer" definitions, demonstrates that Stonewall is not functioning as an advocacy organisation for "trans people" but is a political organisation ruthlessly lobbying for societal acceptance of "transgender ideology" and its keystone concept that, "the body is irrelevant".

All those broken and maimed people falling under the wheels of the juggernaut are collateral damage, too unimportant in one way and too inconvenient in another to be mentioned.

Update to Stonewall dictionary
Update to Stonewall dictionary
IntermittentParps · 24/01/2022 09:38

The term 'assigned at birth' is still a huge problem as it's just nonsense. The word is 'determined'.

Bosky · 24/01/2022 13:22

@IntermittentParps

The term 'assigned at birth' is still a huge problem as it's just nonsense. The word is 'determined'.
Agreed.
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