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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GRA debate in Scot Parl set for Feb

42 replies

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 22:20

I will now attempt a link to Holyrood magazine:

holyrood

'The Scottish Government’s controversial Gender Recognition Act Reform bill is to be published in a matter of weeks, Holyrood understands.

MSPs have been told to expect the proposals on February 24, with a full timetable for debate to follow shortly.

Changing the legislation “at the earliest opportunity” was a key part of the SNP’s manifesto at last year’s election, with the party promising to address concerns from feminist campaign groups and politicians “through informed and respectful discussion.”'

Brace yourselves, everyone.

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Hoardasurass · 21/01/2022 22:25

Great funny I don't remember this being 1 of the key manifesto pledges that the snp made. Nor have they even consulted any feminist groups

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 21/01/2022 23:50

The link actually worked, Arabella. The Holyrood Curse is gone for now.

I am, of couse, suitably shocked at the content.

MiladyBerserko · 22/01/2022 04:30

I would suggest a protest on that day, but oops, the Scottish government banned protests outside the Scottish parliament.

Admirable democracy in action up here. Vote for independence to get more of the same.

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 09:25

Double square brackets render Holyrood links workable, Embarrassing, thanks to a tip from OldCrone.

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Gottasinggottadance · 22/01/2022 09:47

So depressed about this. Wtf is happening in Scotland?

howonearthdidwegethere · 22/01/2022 10:06

Self-ID was not in the SNP manifesto for last year's election. All they did was commit to reform of the GRA. Not the same thing.

Something worth pointing out to your SNP MSPs.

MiladyBerserko · 22/01/2022 10:21

www.spectator.co.uk/article/can-the-scottish-census-be-neutral-on-trans

Article on the fight back re. Census. And yes, English lady is coming to our rescue.

I cannot overstate how fucking much I despise the SNP and what they have done to Scotland.

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 10:29

Gottasing, I don't know, in all honesty. I think we're coming to the end of Sturgeon's rule, fwiw. We've a country that's split fairly evenly between Yes/No for indie and I don't know if we really have an idea of where we're going, post Brexit. Obviously we face huge bills post-Covid and the economy is not in a brilliant place.

Lack of investment in infrastructure is beginning to show, and for me personally, I've lost all faith in the SNP as a government. I had thought they were positive and forward-looking; I now see it all as empty gesture and soundbites. They will not listen to anyone who counters their positions, not questions, not good reasoning, not anything. It's all built on fantasy and glamour and trying to differentiate themselves from Westminster.

There are some highly worrying things happening wrt the judiciary, the media and police etc. I don't know if because we're a small country we are especially prone to cronyism and too easy to corrupt. We have no second chamber, no effective opposition, nobody to put the brakes on the SNP/Green drives. No checks and balances. The brave women who fought for things like the 'six words' amendment in the Forensic Examiner legislation are all gone from the ScotParl, I think. Any politician who wants a career and/or to avoid being targeted is likely to keep quiet.

I'm pretty sure the GRA will be pushed through, and then I think women in Scotland are going to be in a pretty bleak place. No single sex services, no single sex spaces, the loss of our rights under the EA, and Police Scotland clearly on board with prosecuting/arresting/questioning any woman who dares question that narrative, as we've seen with Marion Millar. Women in prison will continue to be subject to being incarcerated with males who 'feel like a woman'.

Everything will be 'mixed sex', no exclusions, and the word 'woman' will no longer mean female, but be based on an undefined inner feeling.

As for children/young people - anyone non-gender conforming, gay or lesbian, who have body image issues, are at risk of being told they are 'born in the wrong body' and can change sex.

Women's services are already losing out to 'gender neutral' services (see Women's Aid) or being taken over by people pushing a 'queer' agenda (see Edinburgh Rape Crisis). Schools are being taught they don't have to disclose serious issues with children/young people to parents. And the 'queering' of education continues with things like the recent 'sex census'.

We will have 'gender ideology' and 'gender identity' forced on us against the wishes of the electorate (without their awareness, for the most part).

Perhaps I'm wrong, and worrying unnecessarily, and everything will be for the best in this best of all possible worlds. Rainbows over everything in a brave new world. Women will 'learn to cope' and children will be comfortable with picking and choosing body parts according to which stereotypes they prefer. Boundaries will be blurred and everyone will live their best lives?

We shall see.

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TeaForTheTillerMan · 22/01/2022 16:16

You can’t blame the SNP for everything, there are five parties with seats in the Scottish Parliament, four of them are of the progressive left and every single progressive left wing party has been absolutely clear that they support reforming the GRA to include self ID. Only the Tories seem to have reservations. The reservations on the progressive liberal left side of politics appear to be the exceptions rather than the rule.

People voted for these progressive parties (women and young people apparently voted disproportionately for them while older men were more likely to vote conservative) and the conservatives lost the Scottish elections, they did not get enough votes to form a government. If people didn’t want reform of the GRA then they could have voted conservative but they simply choose not to.

Elections have consequences and people will get what the majority voted for. After self ID is delivered I’m sure the majority will re-elect the parties that delivered it again.

I think progressive social change often tends to happen in Scotland before it does in England, but I think when England and the U.K. elect a left of centre government in Westminster they will follow Scotland’s lead and implement very similar policies in England too.

I’ve noticed lots of people here are very negative towards the Tory Party but if they are voting for parties doing these policies I can’t understand why they complain so much. I understand people might feel the need to spoil their votes but honestly I can’t see much influence coming from throwing one’s vote away.

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 17:01

That is partly true, Tea. In that all of the left leaning parties are in support of the GRA reform/self ID.

It's not true that self ID has got any kind of support from the electorate, though. People decide on which party to vote for for a variety of reasons.

The GRA is just absolutely not top of most people's list of concerns. Most people are not aware of it at all; a vanishingly small proportion were aware at the time of the last election. Most people are currently voting on the basis of independence as top concern, I would say, followed by other concerns such as party loyalty/left/right inclinations.

'progressive social change' - you mean like the poll tax?

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vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/01/2022 17:23

fucking hell.

that's a bit rushed, isn't it? Have they spoken to anyone other than James Morton about this?

Would they like to, for instance, speak to me?

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 17:32

Ha, no, silly! They only speak to pre-approved govt funded groups in favour of self ID.

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littlbrowndog · 22/01/2022 17:45

But not many people in Scotland even know about this

It’s been kept hidden and what it really means to women and girls in Scotland

My country 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

littlbrowndog · 22/01/2022 17:46

And the government never released the consultation results

Igneococcus · 22/01/2022 17:50

Article in the Times Scotland today about how "Christians ‘can’t express their gender reform views’" today, I have a comment pending there for 9 hours now.

Christians ‘can’t express their gender reform views’

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/01/2022 17:56

@ArabellaScott

Ha, no, silly! They only speak to pre-approved govt funded groups in favour of self ID.
Is that modern democracy?

Get yourself a silo and decide from that?

Shit.

ArabellaScott · 22/01/2022 19:00

@littlbrowndog

And the government never released the consultation results
Ah, well, they did release selected parts of it, come on!
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ArabellaScott · 23/01/2022 09:36

Article in the Times today.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-rapped-over-census-and-womens-rights-p39cqg6v0

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littlbrowndog · 23/01/2022 11:16

Would that be the responses from the government funded groups arabella?

NonnyMouse1337 · 23/01/2022 11:17

Women of Scotland: if you're on Twitter, please consider getting in touch with and joining your nearest Scottish Feminist Network group.

twitter.com/Scot_Feminists/status/1484128723305697282?s=20

It's 'all hands on deck' time and we need as many women to help out in any way that they can.

If anyone can spare some time gardening, please consider helping Sole Sisters with their street stalls.

twitter.com/womenspeakscot1/status/1484430485623296001?s=20

Whether you're on social media or not, make sure you're signed up to For Women Scotland's newsletter to get updates and calls for action via email.

forwomen.scot/newsletter/

ArabellaScott · 23/01/2022 11:19

Thanks, Nonny.

  • and yes, little.
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BuffysBigSister · 23/01/2022 13:00

Over the last week Cabinet Secretary Shona Robison did have meetings with some grassroots women's orgs. The meetings were less than an hour and organised at the last minute. From what I have heard, the lack of basic understanding of the issues on the part of those in government who will be ushering though the reform was astounding. Refusal to accept there would be any impact to EA2010, suggesting that individual organisations will be left to figure out how/if to implement single-sex provisions themselves.

twitter.com/VoteWithOurFeet/status/1485229183475363840

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 23/01/2022 13:25

Thanks for that thread, @BuffysBigSister

I'm interested in the second tweet - Shona Robison said to the women's group that trans is no longer considered a medical issue?

Who decided that being trans is no longer a medical issue?

Does that have implications for the provision of services to this population?

Because, I don't think they'll stand for that.

ArabellaScott · 23/01/2022 13:42

I expect this is based on the DSIM removing 'transgender' from the books? But yes, if it's not a medical issue there is clearly no need at all for puberty blockers, cross sex hormones or any other form of 'treatment' supplied by the NHS.

If adults wish to spend their own money on plastic surgery that's up to them - we can't surely have all of this money spent on something that isn't even a medical issue at a time when the NHS is struggling to treat life-threatening illness.

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BuffysBigSister · 23/01/2022 13:45

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Thanks for that thread, *@BuffysBigSister*

I'm interested in the second tweet - Shona Robison said to the women's group that trans is no longer considered a medical issue?

Who decided that being trans is no longer a medical issue?

Does that have implications for the provision of services to this population?

Because, I don't think they'll stand for that.

My thoughts exactly. If its not a medical issue, then no need for surgery on the NHS? Is it all elective/cosmetic? Why are we removing the healthy breasts from young women with no medical reason? And if the reason is their mental health, why aren't the getting a full MH assessment?
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