Jason Isaacs - is he starting to get it?

[Awkwardy]

“There’s a bunch of stuff about Jo,” he muses. “You know, I play complicated people, I’m interested in complicated people. I don't want to get drawn into the trans issues, talking about them, because it's such an extraordinary minefield.

“She has her opinions, I have mine. They differ in many different areas. But one of the things that people should know about her too – not as a counter-argument – is that she has poured an enormous amount of her fortune into making the world a much better place, for hundreds of thousands of vulnerable children, through her charity Lumos. And that is unequivocally good. Many of us Harry Potter actors have worked for it, and seen on the ground the work that they do.

“So for all that she has said some very controversial things, I was not going to be jumping to stab her in the front – or back – without a conversation with her, which I've not managed to have yet.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/jason-isaacs-interview-seeing-world-3-ft-perspex-wall/

always get the distinct impression none of them read her essay.

I Genuinely think none of them understand it, they're true believers and think trans is a type of intersex.

I've been astounded that rational friends who aren't medical at all and would talk about it with me, genuinely think trans is a physical medical condition rather than mental. And then quite shaken and not wanting to believe it's not they way they thought.

Whereas the gps I know till their eyes but are very tied

This guy though, he's definitely got splinters in his arse as said upthread.

They're all cowards.

What JKR said wasn’t at all controversial five years ago and I don’t doubt that in the very near future it will be uncontroversial once more. Many people will be left scratching their heads as to what happened.

@SantaClawsServiette

But the things she says are, actually, controversial. I don't think they should be, and I think it's with a smaller group of people than those who think that way believe. But it is a controversy or we wouldn't be talking about it and people wouldn't be freaking out. That's what it means to be controversial.

I think that’s a pretty disingenuous take actually, and I think you’re hinting at why when you mention “a smaller group of people”. Off the cesspit of Twitter, what proportion of people think women’s rights should be protected? If it’s right up in the double digits (above 99% let’s say) is it really a “controversial” view?

I’m sure you can find more people in society who think gay marriage is wrong. Do news reports talk now, in 2022, about “the controversial view that gay marriage should be legal”? No, they don’t.

“Controversy” brings some assumptions about how widespread in society a view is. We don’t use it for any old topic on which some people have a difference of opinion which flies in the face of all scientific and sociological evidence.

The earth being round is not a controversy now. It was centuries ago.

I don't agree that they're cowards for not speaking out.

They are actors. Even the best and well known actors are not guaranteed the next job and any actor could easily find themselves blacklisted and never work again.
The entertainment world is total enmeshed by the gender identity cult.
Most seem to be keeping their heads down and avoiding the issue when they can. It's not their job to speak out and I'm sure many feel it's not their fight, either.

If you say these actors who don't speak out are cowards, what about all the women who also cannot speak out because they fear for their livelihoods? Are they cowards, too?

JK Rowling has called none of them cowards. Her privilege and her call, imo, because she knows how they are placed.
FWIW, I think JKR is actually being targeted for her temerity in standing up for herself against Hollywood and especially for refusing to allow the likes of Steven Spielberg to trash her stories. I thought at the time they'd pay her back for it. The hate and wilful misrepresentation of her views is orchestrated.

“Controversy” brings some assumptions about how widespread in society a view is.

Well... there certainly are some controversies around at the moment.
It's controversial that governments are introducing self ID
It's controversial that males are being allowed to compete in female sports.
It's controversial that children are being encouraged to modify their bodies
It's controversial that issues pertaining to womens health aren't using the word 'woman'.

It's controversial that objecting or even wanting to debate these matters is now pretended to be heterodox!

@BraveBananaBadge

Says he's not stabbing her in the back or the front then goes on to call her comments very controversial, oh yes

While I see why people aren't pleased with his seemingly thoughtless caveat, the use of the word 'backstabbing' implies that's exactly what he thinks Radcliffe et al have done. Which is quite the statement to make, really.

I thought this too - or he would have just said nothing - he's also got a career all of his own and nothing to gain from continuing a relationship with her - unlike the kids who unless they can continue their HP connection are finding their careers dwindling as time goes on. Dan is the only one doing film and he's not had anything noteworthy for a while.

Implying people are stabbing JKR in the back (or front) is pretty telling.

@SantaClawsServiette

TBH while I think it's good that more people talk about this, because of the silencing that's gone on, I also appreciate that actors don't want to talk politics in public. People in the public eye need to have some kind of privacy too and being public political personas as well as just known for their work can compromise that. Plus, they are actors and why should anyone care about their views of public controversies that have nothing to do with acting - I appreciate actors who have the self-awareness to be cognizant of that.

I totally get this. Acting is a very precarious profession and in an era when Hollywood is allowing fandoms through social media to drive the narrative, it's a particularly tricky time. But in the case of the Harry Potter films the issue has become very live because of Radcliffe, the Hermione girl and the other one. And, unusually, it's an issue where, if an actor from a fantasy series did have an opinion, she or he could make a real difference to children's whole lives and futures by speaking up on this right now, because Tumblr and similar fantasy fandom sites are the places where children get drawn in to this ideology. Or do studios now make them sign something like an NDA gagging them when they've got a new release coming out, for fear of social media pile-ons? Nothing would surprise me right now, given the way Hollywood has gone around this issue.

It's controversial that objecting or even wanting to debate these matters is now pretended to be heterodox!

Sadly, what she said was unquestionably controversial. The fact that it shouldn't be is a different issue- he isn't slagging her off by saying that.

I don't think we can tell whether he gets it or not- he's just being a decent human being compared to the 3 main stars.

Sadly, what she said was unquestionably controversial.
Which bit?

@senua

Sadly, what she said was unquestionably controversial. Which bit?

That "women" is a better term than the more 'progressive, inclusive' "people who menstruate" (at least some of the time).

That there are instances where someone's sex is more important than their internal sense of their gender.

As at least one pp notes, these were not controversial statements just a few years back, and hopefully things will swing back again, but right now I don't think it's fair or truthful to pretend that these aren't controversial things to say. They shouldn't be, but they are.

these were not controversial statements just a few years back, and hopefully things will swing back again, but right now I don't think it's fair or truthful to pretend that these aren't controversial things to say. They shouldn't be, but they are.
Still trying to get my head round that. They weren't (past tense) / they are (present tense) / they won't be (future tense).
Some parties might find them upsetting - because the statements don't conform to their world view - but that is not the same as controversial. What JKR said is Society's standard view (past tense and future tense). It's the Trans' view that is the disruptor, the controversial one! Classic DARVO technique.

@senua

these were not controversial statements just a few years back, and hopefully things will swing back again, but right now I don't think it's fair or truthful to pretend that these aren't controversial things to say. They shouldn't be, but they are. Still trying to get my head round that. They weren't (past tense) / they are (present tense) / they won't be (future tense). Some parties might find them upsetting - because the statements don't conform to their world view - but that is not the same as controversial. What JKR said is Society's standard view (past tense and future tense). It's the Trans' view that is the disruptor, the controversial one! Classic DARVO technique.

I don't agree that one side or the other has to be defined as 'the controversial one'. What makes it controversial is that it provokes strong disagreement due to the breadth, reach, and passion of the debate. It's not about defining a position as well-founded, or making moral judgments about whether it should be spoken, or whether or not it's a minority position. The debate is highly charged and toxic and controversial.

"Society's view" may well be that TWANW or whatever, but society's view I think is also "be kind", "live and let live", "women's boundaries should be flexible". I don't think it's as simple as "most people think trans people are still the sex they were born, and therefore Rowling's comments on this are not controversial".

"be kind", "live and let live", "women's boundaries should be flexible"

• Is males taking places on all women shortlists being kind to women?

• Is males being allowed into changing rooms, women's prisons, rape crisis centres, women's refuges etc letting women live in peace, dignity and above all safety?

• why should women's boundaries, and not men's be flexible?

Thanks

@Awkwardy

"be kind", "live and let live", "women's boundaries should be flexible"

• Is males taking places on all women shortlists being kind to women?

• Is males being allowed into changing rooms, women's prisons, rape crisis centres, women's refuges etc letting women live in peace, dignity and above all safety?

• why should women's boundaries, and not men's be flexible?

Thanks

No, no, and they shouldn't. I'm not arguing those statements are true/rules we should live by. I agree with JKR. I just don't think it's true (or necessary) to object to Isaacs labelling her comments as controversial.

I thought this too - or he would have just said nothing - he's also got a career all of his own and nothing to gain from continuing a relationship with her - unlike the kids who unless they can continue their HP connection are finding their careers dwindling as time goes on. Dan is the only one doing film and he's not had anything noteworthy for a while.

Watson has been in some films - I thought more than Radcliffe?

Midsomar

I don't really understand what you are saying here. There is controversy now about what JRK said. I agree with her, in fact I would probably say more, but that doesn't change that there is a lot of active controversy about it now. As far as gay marriage, it's probably accurate to say that there may still be some controversy over it but it is a lot less controversial than it used to be.

You seem to be implying that to call something controversial means it's doubtful, I think that's a pretty significant misunderstanding of the word.

Controversial just means there is a controversy, it doesn't mean any particular view is correct, sensible, or even that any of the views represented are.

And there are a whole set of ideas involved in this controversy. Not just does biological sex exist, but is gender a real thing, what does it mean for a person to be trans, how should the law deal with these questions, etc. And there are actually quite a lot of different views on those topics.

It’s a very carefully worded piece. I think he’s made it clear that he disagrees with her but he also believes she has a right to express her opinions. It’s not ideal but it’s infinitely better than Radcliffe, Watson and Grint’ misogynistic and shear comments. Or Margolyes “I’m so cool because I swear and talk about sex and totally get this new way of thinking”

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken I agree.

I hadn't seen Miriam Margolyes' comments on this before so your post sent me to Google. Interestingly this interview offers a surprising case of accidental TERFery ('you're a man until you cut your cock off, then you're a woman') as well as a fairly obvious misreading of what JKR actually said. I wonder if the general noises of "pro trans" saved Margolyes from any backlash on her not-so-self-ID position.

Which bit?

The idea that we should acknowledge any difference between women and transwomen, that women might be allowed to describe how their biology affects them or that women should have any provision of single sex spaces at all.

@donquixotedelamancha

Which bit?

The idea that we should acknowledge any difference between women and transwomen, that women might be allowed to describe how their biology affects them or that women should have any provision of single sex spaces at all.

None of that is even slightly controversial, never mind "very controversial".

None of that is even slightly controversial, never mind "very controversial".

Tell that to the people attacking JKR.

The people attacking JKR never appear to have read her words themselves

I think we should all talk about the 'Controversial Copernican Worldview ' from now on. After all there are flat earthers and they are very vocal and passionate.