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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

''We will not be silenced'', vow peers who were labelled ‘bigots’ for speaking out over trans prisoners

28 replies

yourhairiswinterfire · 21/01/2022 00:12

The Lords standards commissioner has been criticised over a sinister attempt to silence peers who spoke out in a debate about trans prisoners.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/20/lords-standards-commissioner-accused-sinister-attempt-silence/

Really sorry, I can't access the full article. But complaints were made against those that supported the amendment to protect female prisoners. Complaints were dismissed on a ''technicality''. From Keep Prisons Single Sex:

After the debate on Amendment 97ZA on 10th January, complaints were made against 4 of the peers who spoke in support of the amendment. That's fine: this is a democracy and people are entitled to exercise their rights and to complain.

However, by dismissing the complaints on a technicality, on the grounds that they were made by a 3d party, this gives the impression that there was substance to the complaints. This undermines the principle of parliamentary privilege: guaranteed freedom of speech in parliament

There was a debate on this yesterday, and the transcript is here:

hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2022-01-19/debates/186DAEF5-320C-4A1B-A1B1-E92D85842E0F/ConductCommittee?highlight=%22sinister%20implications%22#contribution-A7701C1A-8798-4B6C-8123-32B0A5A

Here's Lord Cormack's speech highlighting the problem:

Last week, my noble friend Lord Blencathra moved an amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, the aim of which was to protect women prisoners from men who self-identify as women and are housed in women’s prisons. The noble Baronesses, Lady Meyer and Lady Fox of Buckley, and I supported it. As a result, all four of us received letters from the Commissioner for Standards saying that our speeches had been complained about. He had dismissed the complaints on a technicality—the grounds that they were third-party complaints and therefore not permissible. The four of us have written to the commissioner because we are deeply concerned by the implications of this decision, as it could give the impression that, because he dismissed the complaints on a technicality, there may have been some substance in the allegations.

Parliamentary privilege is one of the bulwarks of democracy. In the sixth edition of that splendid guide which many of us know, How Parliament Works, written by our colleague the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, and a former clerk in this House, Rhodri Walters, they explain the importance of parliamentary privilege. It is a guarantee of freedom of speech within both Houses of Parliament and our committees. Anything said on the Floor of this House or in Committee is protected as a result of Article 9 of the 1688-89 Bill of Rights, which is one of our foundation documents. It states:

“That the Freedom of Speech and Debates or Proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any Court or Place out of Parliament.”

There can be very few subjects which are more relevant or important to your Lordships’ House. There is no doubt in the minds of those of us who received these letters that the complaints against us were designed to silence us, and that has very sinister implications.

Members of Parliament and Peers must be able to speak up and express any opinion on a public issue without fear of legal action. This does not excuse the frivolous. Your Lordships’ House and the other place can deal with Members whom they believe have abused parliamentary privilege. That has occurred in the past, but we must be free. Our civil liberties in this country depend to a large degree on that power. That is why I am suggesting—I am doing no more than that, and I am grateful to my noble friend for what he said—that the new Conduct Committee, under its new chairman, should address this issue as a priority. Without freedom of speech there can be no free Parliament and no genuine parliamentary democracy.

OP posts:
Mollyollydolly · 21/01/2022 00:31

Thanks for posting - the arrogance and over-reach of trying to silence the House of Lords. It just shows how far the silencing reaches. It's bloody sinister.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 21/01/2022 07:16

I do think the names of the complainant(s) should be published in these cases.

Goatsaregreat · 21/01/2022 07:22

More evidence that this ideology can only be enforced with threats and intimidation with too many supporters ready to use these tactics.

Helleofabore · 21/01/2022 07:28

I guess they are worried because every time Lord Blencartha brings the bill to be discussed, new evidence comes to light as people feel more confident someone is trying to stop this from happening.

I am sure this Bill will be discussed over and over. And the activists are very worried because it will eventually go through with wording that will mean that males will again no longer be placed in female prison estates.

So, women will have said ‘no’ and the law will be changed back. Because those changes should never have been made in the first place.

Datun · 21/01/2022 07:48

@Goatsaregreat

More evidence that this ideology can only be enforced with threats and intimidation with too many supporters ready to use these tactics.
Exactly.

And these tactics are just as important, as the actual issue.

Trying to put the screws on the house of lords is an interesting turn of events tho.

nauticant · 21/01/2022 08:21

Wrong link, try this one:

web.archive.org/web/20220120203803/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/20/lords-standards-commissioner-accused-sinister-attempt-silence/

I welcome trans activists over-reaching in this way. This new row is actually what Lord Blencathra said in the HoL about his aim: he wants the issues around gender identity ideology to be discussed and for awareness to spread.

boatyardblues · 21/01/2022 08:40

I welcome trans activists over-reaching in this way. This new row is actually what Lord Blencathra said in the HoL about his aim: he wants the issues around gender identity ideology to be discussed and for awareness to spread.

Attempting to silence the Lords is a massive own goal then, Nauticant. This latest development will only generate more coverage.

EdithStourton · 21/01/2022 09:13

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

I do think the names of the complainant(s) should be published in these cases.
I think there's merit in that suggestion.

I spoke to DH the other evening about the whole Girl Guides business and the police visits to women who had objected and he was a bit 'Meh' (he gets it, but he thinks I go a bit overboard).

I might just mention this to him...

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 10:29

Wow. That's quite astonishing.

Attempting to silence the Lords is a massive own goal then, Nauticant. This latest development will only generate more coverage.

I should bloody hope so. The wider argument around these issues is crucial - why is it that people are not allowed to discuss them?

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 10:30

'they are covered by parliamentary privilege - a right dating back more than 300 years that views can be freely expressed in the upper chamber.'

Is it just me or does this sort of imply that mere mortals are not permitted to freely express views?

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/01/2022 10:37

I read it as if they are bold enough to go after free speech protected by parliamentary privilege then who have they have ALREADY silenced, @ArabellaScott?

You don't start off by trying to shut up the Queen, do you? You have to work your way up through schools, councils, judiciary, academia, police, health, political parties...

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 10:40

Aye, I meant in a broader sense, vivarium, the parliamentary privilege sounds like straightforward freedom of expression to me. Maybe because it's an old law.

GoGoGretaDoll · 21/01/2022 10:41

I shake my head at myself every day that I am now a rabid supporter of the Lords, given I've been against inherited and donated privilege for my entire life. But - it seems - the only way to stop a sacred caste is to have a more sacred caste. The Lords don't care about getting cancelled, and thank the goddess for that.

nauticant · 21/01/2022 10:56

I think it's about the law having developed in this country to enable Parliament to challenge the Monarchy without fear of being punished when it's necessary to carry out its function.*

The civil rights of the general populace developed in a separate way and for different purposes.

  • the need for it was recognised in the run up to the Civil War and it was codified in the Bill of Rights of 1689
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/01/2022 11:04

You've got me thinking, @ArabellaScott. No denying there are some people with huge privilege in the HoL.

Some of us are more equal than others, and yet even with their extra equal-ness some spotty wee rainbowed scrote has got the temerity to try and shut them up?

I'd love to know who sent the letters. Let's see, there's a couple of GPs with time on their hands...

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 11:27

thanks, nauticant, I wondered if it was some archaic thing like that.

Imnobody4 · 21/01/2022 11:28

I'd like to see the content of the letters of complaint and the response published. I hope there was none of this 'sorry to hear you were offended' rubbish.

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 11:47

'I am uniquely advantaged in this House in that I am not a lawyer'

Grin

Lord Forsyth, 4.15pm

Clymene · 21/01/2022 17:30

This is so incredibly sinister. That people are trying to gag the Lords from discussing the fact that women are at risk if they are incarcerated in mixed sex prisons.

From the Times article:

Blencathra, a former Tory minister, put forward an amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill that was supported by the three other peers. The amendment stipulated that violent and sexual offenders should serve their sentences in prisons matching the sex they were assigned at birth.

So there are some people who want violent sex offenders locked up with women. Christ. That is horrifying.

Incidentally I'm also a staunch republican who is grateful to the HoL. Our elected officials have repeatedly shown that they do not represent the views of the majority.

Igmum · 21/01/2022 17:45

Well done Lord Cormack. More light on TRA craziness. Also joining the HoL fan club after spending decades disapproving of hereditary privilege. Strange times we live in

Datun · 21/01/2022 18:00

[quote Igneococcus]In the Times now too:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c5393888-7ab9-11ec-a9ac-7b4ca33c4cb4?shareToken=0e3495cc3ba2f8d9c2f35ee53e2de639[/quote]
It's quite clear from the article that these Lords really want their bloody day in the sun.

They want the soapbox, the microphone, and all the bunting.

They know what end is up. And they bloody well want to broadcast it.

Thank God. Another fan here of people who aren't arsed about votes.

DoubleYouOhEmAyEn · 21/01/2022 18:08

It's really illustrative of the arrogance and underhand tactics of trans rights activism. There needs to be more publicity of the tactics used and the broader context of how things have got this far. The Nolan podcast was a good start but it needs to be much more broadly publicised.

DoubleYouOhEmAyEn · 21/01/2022 18:10

Just to add I am another HoL convert. They seem to have grasped the nettle on this in a way that our elected officials have largely been unable.

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