Medical experts from multiple sports write to IOC to criticise transgender policy as unfair to female sport

[NotBadConsidering]

www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/17/iocs-new-transgender-guidance-criticised-as-unfair-towards-female-sport

Thanks to Sean Ingle for your ongoing pursuit of this. I can’t find the original letter yet.

Thanks for posting Notbad I am off to read this

Although, reading the article it seems that some of these signatories still believe that testosterone suppression will all males to compete as females.

However, they are at least asking that actual debate happens.

Exactly, I want to see the actual letter to see what they’re saying about testosterone.

I am hoping later that Dr Hilton or Ross Tucker or coach blade will post a link on twitter. And then we can also see what sports and at what level (are they the international bodies, or some country bodies too?) are represented too. That would be also very interesting.

There is a very simple and fair way to allow both trans women and trans men(on testosterone) to compete in sports and that is a 3rd trans category ie male, female and trans groups.
Infact this solution works for all the trans inclusion issues whether that's sports, toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards or prisons. The only problem with this solution is that this does not validate their identity and nobody has the right to demand validation from anyone so shouldn't be a problem right

This story is in the Daily Mail too www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10408621/Olympics-facing-new-row-trans-athletes-guidelines-undermine-integrity-sport.html#comments

Thanks for that, that article says letter will be published Monday, presumably here:

bmjopensem.bmj.com/

So I will keep an eye out for it.

Interesting the International Cycling Union are involved. Hasn’t a certain cyclist’s mum posted here?!

I will also be interested to see if someone from FINA is on the letter, given the Lia Thomas affair.

I like the final paragraph of the Guardian article:

"That was a position also taken by the five UK Sports councils in September. They argued that there was no magic solution which balances the inclusion of trans women in female sport while guaranteeing competitive fairness and safety – and, for the first time, told sports across Britain that they would have to choose which to prioritise."

Ultimately, that's it in a nutshell. They have choose between "inclusion" of transwomen and "fairness and safety" of women.

Obviously my last sentence should really read:

"They have to choose between "inclusion" of some men and "fairness and safety" of all women.

So far they have chosen the wishes of some (a very, very small number) of men over the safety of many, many women.

Inclusion of trans people in sports is one issue. Doable. There are solutions.

The permitting of male people to compete in female only sports is another. Not on. Because female people have a right to female sports and not to revolve around male choices and wishes. And the wish isn't to compete, the wish is for a male athlete to use female sports and the female athletes for their own benefit. No. Females aren't resources for males.

All of this, every thread, comes down to the same two essential points in an ongoing conversation.

• it is fine to be trans. It is fine to present, do, name yourself, live as makes you happy and there should be no discrimination or legal downsides to this. Facilities and resources should be created and available for the diversity and needs required.

• there are limits to how far a trans person can be treated as if they were, in fact, of the sex that they are not. The limits being other people's rights to sex based provision. That's where the line is.

A male person can be a TW and be treated with the respect due to a TW. They cannot become female and they cannot in all circumstances require females to enact a belief that they can when it's to their own disadvantage. Other people have rights too.

You cannot believe that women's sport should be used as a resource for the better lives of males unless you see females as some kind of subordinate, second class citizen by gift of their biology . Which makes a nonsense of arguing that these males are a different kind of female. The misogyny is front and centre.

Yes exactly.

In fact, all of these problems could be easily solved if the law differentiated properly between gender and sex. Where sexed bodies matter, there could be sex segregation (as there has always been). Where gender matters (wherever that might be) there could be a new form of gender segregation.

Those who are interested can gendered hairstyles, gendered books and activities if they want to. Personally I think that's a bit regressive, but if people who have a gender want to stick to traditionally gendered roles, I don't care.

@Hoardasurass

There is a very simple and fair way to allow both trans women and trans men(on testosterone) to compete in sports and that is a 3rd trans category ie male, female and trans groups. Infact this solution works for all the trans inclusion issues whether that's sports, toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards or prisons. The only problem with this solution is that this does not validate their identity and nobody has the right to demand validation from anyone so shouldn't be a problem right

I do agree with this.

I wondered over to this, often neglected (on my part) section of MN after reading this news story on the BBC website.

The open letter has been published:

bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/8/1/e001273

However, having now read it, it’s utter bullshit. The whole paragraph on testosterone is utter rubbish. Talking about how mitigating testosterone would be helpful regarding self-ID and referring to “cisgender women athletes”:

The implementation of such eligibility criteria for trans women and the integration of trans men into the male category due to their now high concentrations of testosterone upholds the integrity of sport and upholds the protected category of women’s sport. This implementation would also combat the concern about self-identification in the female category of sport due to the medically necessary treatment of transgender patients.

How can a group of scientists dismiss the other benefits of male puberty?! Idiots.

Integrating cisgender women athletes with differences of sexual development (DSD) into the female category of sport is further complicated by differing levels of hyperandrogenism. Hence, the authors are sympathetic to the predicament that these cisgender women athletes with DSD face.

They’re not “cisgender women with hyperandrogenism” FFS, they’re males with normal levels of androgens, not hyper.

What a complete disappointment .