Women's prisons - how it started. Maya Forstrater

[highame]

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1480673955316969474/photo/1

I hope this link works. Can't see anything posted on here but this is interesting regarding how intact males ended up in women's prisons. I can't find out where this piece comes from. Perhaps someone has a link. Origins are always a good place to start.

If you can't see the link, Maya tweets;
''the case that led to intact males being put in women's prisons - a killer & attempted rapist wanted to have surgery.
The NHS said first he had to live in female prison.
It was nothing to do with safety in male prison''

Ah the case of Karen Jones, murderer and attempted rapist. Later invited to the house of Lords to give a speech on making prisons safer for men who identify as women.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

Some more background here.

transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/30/karen-lawson/

This case also disproves claims that male prisoners are risk assessed before being moved to the female estate.

Previous thread here;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3180050-Invited-to-talk-at-the-House-of-Lords

Thanks for that, I knew you'd come up trumps. I wanted more reading on this because my information is patchy and later. The early stuff adds better perspective. It's amazing how naïve everyone was. How totally unconcerned with women (nowts changed but wow!) people were.

I think this might also be the same person.
www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff76260d03e7f57eabf57

[quote PronounssheRa]Ah the case of Karen Jones, murderer and attempted rapist. Later invited to the house of Lords to give a speech on making prisons safer for men who identify as women.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html[/quote]
He was doing talks and training on equality and diversity with public sector organisations as well a couple of years ago, I don't know if that's still ongoing.
Also appeared in P*nk news (sorry for the link - if anyone can archive it please do) with stories of his "harrowing" experiences in prison.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/24/these-powerful-stories-from-two-trans-ex-offenders-remind-us-why-we-need-to-support-trans-rights-today/

Another link to the judgment:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2220.html

The request for transfer to a female prison wasn't about safety, it was about 'living as a woman' in order to get surgery.

7. Although the Gender Recognition Panel was satisfied that the Claimant had lived in her acquired gender for the requisite two year period prior to her application for a gender recognition certificate, while she was detained in the male prison estate, the Gender Identity Clinic treating her will not approve her gender reassignment surgery until she has spent a period living "in role" as a woman within a female prison. The experts instructed by both the Prison Service and the Claimant agree that this is an appropriate requirement. It follows that so long as the Claimant remains within the male prison estate she is unable to progress towards the surgery which is her objective. While transfer to the female prison estate does not guarantee that the Claimant will be able to proceed to surgery while in prison, unless she is transferred the prospect of surgery is ruled out for so long as she remains in prison.

86. For the reasons given in my judgment, I quash the decision of the Secretary of State to continue to detain the Claimant in a male prison and declare that her continued detention in a male prison is in breach of Article 8 of the ECHR.

So a killer and would-be rapist gets more consideration than all the women who would be incarcerated with him. What about their human rights?

What an interesting turn of phrase- (from the Pink news headline)- "ex-offenders." As if there was such a thing. Is it supposed to mean they stopped being offenders the moment they finished committing the offenses they got done for, or that Pink News supposedly somehow "knows" they will never ever commit offenses again?

The motion moved by Lord Blencathra and debated was subsequently withdrawn last night. This was on single sex provision in the women's estate. He said, after withdrawing, “The battle for common sense and the rights of women will intensify.”

This has a way to run but I am not letting it go, even if there have been no assaults since 2019, yet again lessons have been learned - my arse

This has a way to run but I am not letting it go, even if there have been no assaults since 2019

Indeed. It's nowhere near over.

There have been no sexual assaults that we know of.

Indeed, Amy's case against the prison services was bolstered by evidence from another prisoner at HMP Bronzefield who also complained of assault by J.

The woman, who provided a statement for the legal case, reported two assaults — one in the line for dinner and one in her room. J pressed her genitals against the woman's buttocks.

Yet the prison did not report the assaults by J on either woman to the police.

'The staff turned a blind eye to this behaviour. They protected themselves and didn't speak out as they were worried that they would get into trouble because of the trans policy in prison; a policy which doesn't consider the impact on women prisoners,' says Amy.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html

What else have they turned a blind eye to?

Staff protecting themselves. Female prisoners being threatened with extended sentences if they ''misgender''. And from the article .. It seems that J — wielding the threat that any criticism of her behaviour would be considered 'transphobic' — was permitted concessions that would not be granted to other women prisoners.

What a toxic environment for the women. Can't say I'd feel confident reporting anything in their situation.

No reports that have escaped into the public domain or official records

Important difference. Remember that local authorities think incidents like Baby P and other safeguarding disasters 'escaping' and becoming public knowledge are a failure. People kick off and start blaming and wanting things done, it's all really inconvenient, while actually this kind of thing happens all the time. Out of sight. Without causing official bodies any real extra work.

And the barrier should not be 'has actually done sufficiently serious harm to a woman that CPS could not find a way to keep it out of court' - as we know well how much they pout and drag their feet to avoid pressing charges for rape at the best of times (did she ask for it? what was she wearing? let's not harm this poor man's life changes for selfishly and forcibly wrecking a woman's)

A male can harass and distress a female by nothing more than their facial expression, body language and smirking, and it can be very hard to pin anything on them for doing it as many women know from men in the workplace or walking down a street. Now imagine being locked up with the guy who does that, and no way to get away from them, and the demand that you get undressed and shower alongside them.

It's heading back to the humiliation, dehumanisation and total lack of duty of care or basic human empathy of the bloody workhouse. For females only .

Unintended consequences followed by an inability to admit when you've got it wrong lest you be labelled a bigot.

Can someone archive this before it gets zapped please?

Why should women prison officers have to deal with - and sometimes search - violent male sex offenders. By the same token I never knew there were female officers in men's prisons until I saw the publicity for 'Screws'. Is that a good idea?

Archive dot ph/E94mg

Thanks!

@OldCrone

Another link to the judgment: www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2220.html

The request for transfer to a female prison wasn't about safety, it was about 'living as a woman' in order to get surgery.

7. Although the Gender Recognition Panel was satisfied that the Claimant had lived in her acquired gender for the requisite two year period prior to her application for a gender recognition certificate, while she was detained in the male prison estate, the Gender Identity Clinic treating her will not approve her gender reassignment surgery until she has spent a period living "in role" as a woman within a female prison. The experts instructed by both the Prison Service and the Claimant agree that this is an appropriate requirement. It follows that so long as the Claimant remains within the male prison estate she is unable to progress towards the surgery which is her objective. While transfer to the female prison estate does not guarantee that the Claimant will be able to proceed to surgery while in prison, unless she is transferred the prospect of surgery is ruled out for so long as she remains in prison.

86. For the reasons given in my judgment, I quash the decision of the Secretary of State to continue to detain the Claimant in a male prison and declare that her continued detention in a male prison is in breach of Article 8 of the ECHR.

So a killer and would-be rapist gets more consideration than all the women who would be incarcerated with him. What about their human rights?

Crikey, some people just get everyone jumping to give them everything they want, don't they?