Social contagion: TikTok, trans, ‘alters’, multiple personality disorder

[NotBadConsidering]

I can’t see a thread on this yet and I don’t remember it being discussed, correct me if I’ve missed it. I have now encountered this in real life.

The latest trend on TikTok is to declare you have multiple personalities, or “alters”, or have a multiple personality disorder as part of a “system”:

mobile.twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1478446701610479616?s=10

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1479424250364768256?s=10

A search shows this isn’t brand new, but seems to be taking off.

I would sincerely hope that if these teenagers seek professional help they would be supported to extract themselves from this rabbit hole, not have the false diagnosis reinforced, and helped with appropriate therapy.

There is a clear interaction between this and the social contagion leading to ROGD (as evident in my real life encounter).

If a teenage girl with ASD decides she has a male identity out of the blue, a gender clinic will affirm that identity.

So what are psychiatrists going to do when these teenagers tell them they have multiple identities? Affirm all of them?

I wonder if this trend may be the final thing to break through their dissonance, but that may be wishful thinking.

Will be interested to see what people think.

Yes, I do remember a thread about this, a few months ago maybe?

I think you’re right - you can’t “affirm” multiple supposed “alters” in one body, with surgery or hormones. So this actually might help to make sense of “gender identity” as personality, not an identity that requires physical changes to be made. You’d hope!

I have an autistic teen with additional complex needs. In the past year he has seen a huge increase in the number of the young people he interacts with online suddenly self diagnosing conditions.

It began with pronouns and gender bollocks but they soon got bored of that and it has escalated into people claiming they have Tourette's and PTSD and various other conditions eventhough they've had no diagnosis. They're all trying to outdo each other.

Contagion is the word. And affirmation is the last thing they need.

Entirely predictable. We were all teens once. We should ve able to remember that these things aren't always about identities/likes/dislikes etc so much as just wanting to shock your friemds/family/parents etc.

When things become mainstream they become boring. There's no shock value to it. Therefore things escalate because what's needed is to recognise the rebellion and put a boundary in.place.

There are plenty of teens who will go pretty damn far to test theor parents and get that no.

I'm a therapist and have had someone tell me they have multiple personalities but they aren't very convincing as they don't really know what genuine cases look and behave and they don't dictate their treatment. Professionals are well used to people demanding certain medications etc.

I hate tik tokdig deeper from the funny and you get this cult affecting children and young people I don't know what the answer is .

@Whatwouldscullydo

Entirely predictable. We were all teens once. We should ve able to remember that these things aren't always about identities/likes/dislikes etc so much as just wanting to shock your friemds/family/parents etc.

When things become mainstream they become boring. There's no shock value to it. Therefore things escalate because what's needed is to recognise the rebellion and put a boundary in.place.

There are plenty of teens who will go pretty damn far to test theor parents and get that no.

Absolutely.

And the death of teenage music tribes (punks, goths, new romantics, shoe gazers, clubbers, metal heads etc) has left teenagers without any "gangs" to identify with.

I remember a thread too. But yes self diagnosis is definitely a thing. I recently saw a post on Facebook for an autism group that declared 'self diagnosis is equally valid'. Not 'we recognise it is difficult to get diagnosed as waiting lists can be long etc so we accept self diagnosis'. No - self diagnosis is now equally valid. But this seems a broader movement to denigrate science and medicine. The 'medical approach' is now considered a bad thing. 'Lived experience' of an individual is raised above thorough research - even research that has gathered many 'lived experiences'. I was reading a post this morning concerned at dangerous advice given out on home birth face book groups and their attitude towards doctors and midwives.

I see a huge desire to medicalise normal experiences. I teach 20 year olds and 15 years ago they would be nervous/worried about an assignment. Now I would say 95% of the course have medically signed off anxiety when it comes time to submit their work. I don't think there is a rise in actual anxiety, I think there is a push to medicalise completely normal feelings (i.e., nerves). Of course this means those with true anxiety have their case diluted because it becomes normal or even expected.

But for multiple personalities, and trans ideology, I wonder how often this reflects their gaming personas - if you spend all day immersed in a fantasy world where others see you as an exaggerated sexualised female then real life may be a shock to find others don't see you as your avatar. This multiple personality thing may reflect the adoption of different person as in different games. Many people spend hours every day in increasingly immerse fantasy world's and that must have an impact.

@Lovelyricepudding

But for multiple personalities, and trans ideology, I wonder how often this reflects their gaming personas - if you spend all day immersed in a fantasy world where others see you as an exaggerated sexualised female then real life may be a shock to find others don't see you as your avatar. This multiple personality thing may reflect the adoption of different person as in different games. Many people spend hours every day in increasingly immerse fantasy world's and that must have an impact.

Possibly. In which case I may need to identify as a rather portly, moustached, Italian plumber.

@NutellaEllaElla

I'm a therapist and have had someone tell me they have multiple personalities but they aren't very convincing as they don't really know what genuine cases look and behave and they don't dictate their treatment. Professionals are well used to people demanding certain medications etc.

But that’s my point I think. That therapists can recognise this for what it is, sure. But why can’t gender clinics recognise the same self diagnosis and external influences in teenagers presenting with sudden confusion about their gender identity? What’s the difference?

I don’t agree with Thomas Steensma’s original belief that there have always been children who need to transition, but he is saying that now the cohort is different, and the protocol for the children 20 years ago cannot be applied to them and it’s concerning clinics don’t recognise that.

What makes one thing batshit - that kids are all of a sudden awash with multiple personality disorder - and give confidence that batshit will be dealt with accordingly, but another thing - that kids are all of a sudden realising they’re trans, always have been and are now able to confidently express it due to social acceptance - completely sane?

I have a feeling this is a 'millenial' problem: the older millenials, who were the whiniest, most self-righteous generation ever are now parents who are frightened of everything, desperate to conform and can't bear their children to disagree with them or explore their own identities (as young people have always enjoyed doing).

Possibly. In which case I may need to identify as a rather portly, moustached, Italian plumber.

I see a huge desire to medicalise normal experiences. I teach 20 year olds and 15 years ago they would be nervous/worried about an assignment. Now I would say 95% of the course have medically signed off anxiety when it comes time to submit their work. I don't think there is a rise in actual anxiety, I think there is a push to medicalise completely normal feelings (i.e., nerves). Of course this means those with true anxiety have their case diluted because it becomes normal or even expected

I.was about to say the exact same thing. That and what used to be basic life skills and expectations such as planning a bus journey to the library to get a book out to do your homework, or making sure you had written down your homework.correctly amd making sirs you understand what's being asked/expected of you befire you leave the classroom, have been lost. It's now apps so there's no responsibility to make these notes/ask.the questions. And it's assumed you can just Google and it will be right there instantly. Cue the panic when you cant find a site that ohrases things in the way you understand. Every thing says something different and instead of a published book that's been edited and peer reviewed you have to hope to god its not an unsubstantiated inaccurate blog you are getting the info from.

Having to then ask teachers fir help and a recommendation for a website is instead of being a basic thing we all wouod have done in the past..well its all part of the " stress" now

@pawpatrolneedaunion

I see a huge desire to medicalise normal experiences. I teach 20 year olds and 15 years ago they would be nervous/worried about an assignment. Now I would say 95% of the course have medically signed off anxiety when it comes time to submit their work. I don't think there is a rise in actual anxiety, I think there is a push to medicalise completely normal feelings (i.e., nerves). Of course this means those with true anxiety have their case diluted because it becomes normal or even expected.

Yes I was first diagnosed 27 years ago

I presume (if I told people) no one would take it seriously now.

Btw what is "the system" please?

“I'm a therapist and have had someone tell me they have multiple personalities but they aren't very convincing as they don't really know what genuine cases look and behave and they don't dictate their treatment. Professionals are well used to people demanding certain medications etc.”

And how does your experience with those who claim trans status compare? Are therapists encouraged to disagree with self-diagnosis there? Do you assess whether they are convincing, perhaps with reference to how much time they have spent on websites that instruct them on what to say in order to obtain a diagnosis of gender dysphoria or “transness” or whatever the diagnosis is at the present time (it appears to have undergone many changes in recent years).

Interested to know if the same openness to challenging a diagnosis applies equally to both claims.

@Lovelyricepudding

But for multiple personalities, and trans ideology, I wonder how often this reflects their gaming personas - if you spend all day immersed in a fantasy world where others see you as an exaggerated sexualised female then real life may be a shock to find others don't see you as your avatar. This multiple personality thing may reflect the adoption of different person as in different games. Many people spend hours every day in increasingly immerse fantasy world's and that must have an impact.

My first thought was "the system" means they see themselves as part of a computer system?

Btw what is "the system" please?

Watch the TikTok video in the first Twitter link I posted. It seems to be that there is not a person, but a “system” that has multiple users and operators.

@NotBadConsidering

Btw what is "the system" please?

Watch the TikTok video in the first Twitter link I posted. It seems to be that there is not a person, but a “system” that has multiple users and operators.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear

That video says it, but is it part of something else?

@pawpatrolneedaunion

I see a huge desire to medicalise normal experiences. I teach 20 year olds and 15 years ago they would be nervous/worried about an assignment. Now I would say 95% of the course have medically signed off anxiety when it comes time to submit their work. I don't think there is a rise in actual anxiety, I think there is a push to medicalise completely normal feelings (i.e., nerves). Of course this means those with true anxiety have their case diluted because it becomes normal or even expected.

This is a good point and in my limited experience of being around teens (I do some voluntary work and have/have had teen kids) some of them can't just have a sore knee/food 'intolerance'/stress - it has to be something bigger. I know several nice, fun kids who have a huge list of self diagnosed disorders/allergies/conditions. Their Mums have occasionally dryly commented - they obviously don't think it's quite as serious as their daughters do. At least 2 girls in DD's friendship group have said they have 'tics' now too. DD (who does have a diagnosis of anxiety, which she actually doesn't make publicly known except to a very few friends) used to follow an Instagram account set up by several young woman experiencing anxiety and (self diagnosed) autism. At first she found this a really helpful and insightful account. But she's stopped following as one by one they all have taken up pronouns and identities and now at least one has 'alters' and talks about systems. It's no longer interesting, relevant or helpful. She commented that they all seem a bit sad and lost.

That video says it, but is it part of something else?

As far as I can tell, it’s a metaphor that people are applying literally.

I wonder if this trend may be the final thing to break through their dissonance

I really hope so.

I am hoping to run a workshop on social media use in autistic teens and social contagion is a big part of that.

One of my 14yo’s friends who identifies as male also is upset that nobody has validated her tic disorder that appeared. I’ve no doubt that an alter will be next

@pawpatrolneedaunion

I see a huge desire to medicalise normal experiences. I teach 20 year olds and 15 years ago they would be nervous/worried about an assignment. Now I would say 95% of the course have medically signed off anxiety when it comes time to submit their work. I don't think there is a rise in actual anxiety, I think there is a push to medicalise completely normal feelings (i.e., nerves). Of course this means those with true anxiety have their case diluted because it becomes normal or even expected.

But this is still part of the denigration of medicine. It becomes instead something consumers can access and demand diagnoses or medication rather than a source of knowledge an expertise. It is considered akin to a retail environment where the customer is always right.

Also agree about anxiety. I've gone from being someone who was consumed by worry and panic but ignored by GPs and left to get on with it (in the 80s/90s), to being told I have an actual anxiety problem, caused by childhood trauma (around 2010), and being medicated for it (which is fantastic and solves the problem), to not wanting to tell anyone in RL I have an actual anxiety disorder for fear of sounding like a whiny attention-seeking self-diagnoser who has a normal level of worry.

It's OK for me as I function well now with the meds - but for people who are really suffering with acute anxiety, dissociation/panic attacks etc which are horrible, it cheapens what they go through and makes it harder for them to get help.

This academic (in america) argues for accepting people's multiple identities and being respectful of them. It's one thing to be respectful of another human being, but another to act like you 'accept' their many personalities, in other words pretending to believe they are more than one person. It's completely irresponsible to my mind.

aeon.co/ideas/what-we-can-learn-about-respect-and-identity-from-plurals