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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Breast binders

27 replies

Katieandthekids · 10/01/2022 22:07

Anyone got any useful articles on binders and their long term effects (or not) on young girls. Physically and mentally.

Not looking for opinions on trans people tbh I want to know facts to support a family member.

OP posts:
Changethetoner · 10/01/2022 22:17

Restrict breathing.
Irritate your skin.
Break skin around the edges of the binder.
Cause overheating.
Bruise or fracture your ribs.
9 Apr 2021

Chest Binding: the Types, the Risks, and More - WebMD

ruthypfdraper · 10/01/2022 22:20

www.statsforgender.org/binding/

winchfem · 10/01/2022 22:31

This question would fit better in the LGBT+ children category I think, even if your relative is an adult. It doesn't really relate to feminism, especially as you're not looking for opinions.

The first, and better, option for most people who wish to bind, is a minimising or compression sports bra. This can achieve very similar effects for less money and a lot safer.

If your relative really feels they need to wear one then there are ways to minimise harm. Wear a size larger than advertised, for less than 6-8 hours at a time, and always take it off immediately if it starts to hurt.

Georgeskitchen · 10/01/2022 22:32

Damage breast tissue

ShagMeRiggins · 10/01/2022 22:43

No articles (though I’ve read many, on both sides), but my now-15-year-old daughter asked for a breast binder from age 12.

I refused. She asked again. I refused again. Etc. We spoke about the potential long-term effect on her body. She said she wouldn’t wear it all the time, just wanted to see. Still, I refused.

I’m continuing to listen to her, yet hold my “watch and wait” ground.

Actually, she wears a (binding) protective vest with (horse) riding lessons every week and that’s enough for me.

She has been purely hetero, then bi, then pan, then (nearly) NB, then lesbian, and I don’t know what comes next. As stated, she has just turned 15.

I will support and love her, and part of that is not enabling her to change her developing body.

She is a child. I am protecting her. I don’t care who she loves (as long as they love her back and treat her well), I don’t care how she presents herself (it’s a mix right now—cheerleader skirts with DMs or baggy black stuff). My aim is to allow her to figure it out.

Sorry, OP, that wasn’t helpful. Every article I sent to my daughter was ignored by her, but taking—a lot of calm talking intermittently—helped us stave off most of the drama (am remembering an absolute meltdown circa 2019 when she threw herself in the kitchen floor in tears and—genuinely—cried, “I’m so confused about my gender identity!”

Such a world to live in.

ShagMeRiggins · 10/01/2022 22:46

Sorry, OP, I don’t think I answered your question

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 10/01/2022 22:50

shag 💐

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 10/01/2022 22:51

This question would fit better in the LGBT+ children category I think, even if your relative is an adult. It doesn't really relate to feminism, especially as you're not looking for opinions

This

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/01/2022 23:09

extract

If you hope to get top surgery (a procedure to reduce or remove breast tissue), binding frequently can affect skin elasticity and impact surgery outcomes (4,5).

(continues)

Risks and side effects of binding

Binding can affect skin, muscles, and movement, particularly over long periods of time. Tightly covering the skin and chest with materials that don’t allow free-flowing air can create warm, moist environments for bacterial and fungal infections to develop. Wearing binders that are too tight can cause underlying tissue and muscle damage, prevent free movement, and even restrict a person’s ability to breathe.

Two studies have been completed that focus specifically on people who bind. They were cross-sectional studies, observing a specific population (people who chest bind) at a specific point in time, and were published in 2017 and 2018. Both of these studies are based on data from 1,800 responders to an online survey.

Across both studies, the majority of people (89-97%) reported experiencing at least one negative symptom from chest binding (2,3).

Common side effects of chest binding

76-78% of people in studies reported skin/tissue problems, like tenderness, scarring, swelling, itching, infections

74-75% of people reported pain in chest, shoulders, back or abdomen

51-52% of people reported respiratory problems (like shortness of breath)

47-49% of people reported musculoskeletal symptoms, like postural changes, muscle wasting, or rib fractures (2,3)

People who bind their chest more frequently (every day) are more likely to experience negative symptoms. For this reason, taking days off between binding may help decrease this risk. Long term binding (over years) was also more likely to be associated with negative symptoms, particularly skin, tissues, and musculoskeletal problems (2). People with larger breasts were more likely to experience skin and soft tissue issues (2).

What people use to bind their chests with is a very personal choice, and finding a standard “best type of binder” for everyone is unclear. One study showed that people who used commercial binders experienced increased risk for the highest number of negative symptoms from binding, followed by those who used bandages, and plastic wrap or duct tape (2).

The high amount of negative effects found from commercial binders in this study were a surprise to the researchers,since blogs and other informal resources dedicated to trans men and healthy binding often recommend commercial binders(2,4). This could be due to people wearing binders that are too small, wearing them for longer periods, or wearing more than one at a time. More research is needed, but if you choose to wear a commercial binder, do your research, read reviews online, and make sure it is the right size for you.

www.helloclue.com/articles/cycle-a-z/chest-binding-tips-and-tricks-for-trans-men-nonbinary-and-genderfluid

ShagMeRiggins · 10/01/2022 23:55

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

shag 💐
Thank you, Rufus. The flowers are very kind.

She’s fine, honestly. Very happy with school (doing well, hard working, lots of Praise cards—not religious!), loves music probably more than anything (autodidact with many instruments), loves horses, has a good group of friends, and is wonderful with our family.

Just had a break up with her girlfriend of four months. She seems okay.

I guess my point was that I’m grateful that ‘watch & wait’ is working for her. I’ve stayed strong on this because of my own instincts, but backed up by FWR.

She has a giggle, heard every single day, that sets the entire household into a smile.

ShagMeRiggins · 11/01/2022 00:06

And again, I’ve derailed. Apologies.

OP, have you searched for articles (scientific, etc) and has the person your asking on behalf of also researched?

With my daughter, most of the information came from pro-binding websites, and Tik Tok.

Posters upthread have provided links and copied information.

If you wish to support this person, it’s my belief that firm facts are important to consider, especially if this is a younger person.

I’ve told my daughter unequivocally that she can do whatever she wants with her breasts when she is 18, and as long as she can afford it.

Legal adult, her body, her choice. I might not agree, but that’s irrelevant.

GoatInCaptivity · 11/01/2022 00:08

Another Thanks from me Shag.

I think it's so tough for many children right now.

Navigation of adolescence is a challenging time for most teens but the pressure I see now to declare your "status" wrt to gender and sexual orientation is frightening.

At the very time they should be exploring their identity, they are being expected to box themselves into ever smaller categories/definitions of who they "authentically" are.

ShagMeRiggins · 11/01/2022 00:32

Thanks, Goat (loving the Janice Turner reference). Again, very kind.

@Katieandthekids, have you received enough information from this thread? Enough resources?

I don’t think it’s wandered into trans territory. I believe you’ll get more responses—if you need them—if you are willing to share more about the situation you’re experiencing.

I absolutely respect your right to not do so. Flowers

ShagMeRiggins · 11/01/2022 00:39

Navigation of adolescence is a challenging time for most teens

My Uncle once said, “I didn’t enjoy my adolescence. Nor have I enjoyed anyone else’s.”

Indeed, it is a challenging time.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 11/01/2022 07:01

In addition to the specific damages (I think you have some good links) I believe that it is more difficult to breathe deeply and that sports therefore is avoided by many who wears binders. I would worry about that as well. I think sports, especially outside, is vital for mental health.

Katieandthekids · 11/01/2022 07:27

@winchfem

This question would fit better in the LGBT+ children category I think, even if your relative is an adult. It doesn't really relate to feminism, especially as you're not looking for opinions.

The first, and better, option for most people who wish to bind, is a minimising or compression sports bra. This can achieve very similar effects for less money and a lot safer.

If your relative really feels they need to wear one then there are ways to minimise harm. Wear a size larger than advertised, for less than 6-8 hours at a time, and always take it off immediately if it starts to hurt.

Sorry I didn't know this category exists. She is 12
OP posts:
Katieandthekids · 11/01/2022 07:29

@ShagMeRiggins

No articles (though I’ve read many, on both sides), but my now-15-year-old daughter asked for a breast binder from age 12.

I refused. She asked again. I refused again. Etc. We spoke about the potential long-term effect on her body. She said she wouldn’t wear it all the time, just wanted to see. Still, I refused.

I’m continuing to listen to her, yet hold my “watch and wait” ground.

Actually, she wears a (binding) protective vest with (horse) riding lessons every week and that’s enough for me.

She has been purely hetero, then bi, then pan, then (nearly) NB, then lesbian, and I don’t know what comes next. As stated, she has just turned 15.

I will support and love her, and part of that is not enabling her to change her developing body.

She is a child. I am protecting her. I don’t care who she loves (as long as they love her back and treat her well), I don’t care how she presents herself (it’s a mix right now—cheerleader skirts with DMs or baggy black stuff). My aim is to allow her to figure it out.

Sorry, OP, that wasn’t helpful. Every article I sent to my daughter was ignored by her, but taking—a lot of calm talking intermittently—helped us stave off most of the drama (am remembering an absolute meltdown circa 2019 when she threw herself in the kitchen floor in tears and—genuinely—cried, “I’m so confused about my gender identity!”

Such a world to live in.

This is extremely helpful and exactly how I feel. Unfortunately she is my niece not my child so I have a lot less power over the situation.
OP posts:
Katieandthekids · 11/01/2022 07:34

@ShagMeRiggins

And again, I’ve derailed. Apologies.

OP, have you searched for articles (scientific, etc) and has the person your asking on behalf of also researched?

With my daughter, most of the information came from pro-binding websites, and Tik Tok.

Posters upthread have provided links and copied information.

If you wish to support this person, it’s my belief that firm facts are important to consider, especially if this is a younger person.

I’ve told my daughter unequivocally that she can do whatever she wants with her breasts when she is 18, and as long as she can afford it.

Legal adult, her body, her choice. I might not agree, but that’s irrelevant.

Her parents are so scared that denying her anything will cause her more harm mentally that they have agreed she can bind. BIL is insistent she is just trying it out and that it can do no long term harm. He says he's done research but is very cagey about it. I totally understand why, he's worried and frightened for his kid. She's decided she wants to change pronouns based on how she is feeling that day. She is an extremely sensitive and complicated person. IMO she spends far too much time on the internet and after a period of bullying has been convinced by her parents that 'real' friends aren't necessary as she is better than them all anyway. It's all very difficult they are parents doing their best but I feel they've headed down a dark road.
OP posts:
Katieandthekids · 11/01/2022 07:35

[quote ruthypfdraper]www.statsforgender.org/binding/[/quote]
Useful thanks xx

OP posts:
Katieandthekids · 11/01/2022 08:11

@winchfem

This question would fit better in the LGBT+ children category I think, even if your relative is an adult. It doesn't really relate to feminism, especially as you're not looking for opinions.

The first, and better, option for most people who wish to bind, is a minimising or compression sports bra. This can achieve very similar effects for less money and a lot safer.

If your relative really feels they need to wear one then there are ways to minimise harm. Wear a size larger than advertised, for less than 6-8 hours at a time, and always take it off immediately if it starts to hurt.

I have just reposted there
OP posts:
rogdmum · 11/01/2022 08:14

bayswatersupport.org.uk/breast-binding-self-harm-or-gender-care/

Which includes a link to this study:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27300085/

The study makes clear the risks associated with binding.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 11/01/2022 08:20

Hope you get the information you need katie

Beowulfa · 11/01/2022 09:32

ShagMe Riggins- great to hear your daughter is doing so well with your unstinting support.

I know I'm biased, but I do think being around horses is very healthy for people feeling "misunderstood". They genuinely don't give a shit about your race/religion/sexuality/class/appearance etc; they respond solely to how you treat them. There's growing evidence equine interaction is very good for those with autism, as horse body language is much less complicated than humans, and they also prefer routine and familiarity.

I also think any kind of volunteering activity with disadvantaged people/those with a disability is really important for teenagers, and I wish I'd done some at that age.

Masdintle · 11/01/2022 11:22

Riding for the Disabled is such a fab charity

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