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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The new interim version of the Equal Treatment Bench Book

13 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 10/01/2022 19:54

Equal Treatment Bench Book is there to guide judges on equal treatment within the court. A new version contains some significant changes but still makes no distinction between self-id and those with a GRC.

There are some changes such as:

"The revised ETBB recognises for the first time that witnesses have a right to refer to trans-identifying people using pronouns which align with their biological sex, and acknowledges that there may be circumstances where this is required by the interests of justice.

Paragraph 26 of chapter 12 states,

“There may be situations where the rights of a witness to refer to a trans person by pronouns matching their gender assigned at birth, or to otherwise reveal a person’s trans status, clash with the trans person’s right to privacy. It is important to identify such potential difficulties in advance, preferably at a case management [1] stage, but otherwise at the outset of the hearing. A decision would then have to be made regarding how to proceed, bearing in mind factors such as:

…Why the witness is unwilling or unable to give evidence in a way which maintains the trans person’s privacy. For example, a victim of domestic abuse or sexual violence at the hands of a trans person may understandably describe the alleged perpetrator and use pronouns consistent with their gender assigned at birth because that is in accordance with the victim’s experience and perception of the events. Artificial steps such as requiring a victim to modify his/her language to disguise this risks interfering with his/her ability to give evidence of a traumatic event.”

There will be occasions when, after these and other relevant factors have been considered, the interests of justice require that a witness or party may refer to the trans person using their former pronouns or name.”

The guidance then cites the provisions relating to special measures for vulnerable and intimidated witnesses contained in the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999 and Domestic Abuse Act 2021. Previous versions of chapter 12 of the ETBB have not mentioned provisions relating to these groups of witnesses.

This amendment should mean that complainants giving evidence in trials for rape or other sexual offences will not be required to call male defendants ‘she’, and that women giving evidence in family proceedings about their experiences of domestic abuse will not be required to refer to their former male partners as though they were women."

But ...

"In most respects the ETBB guidance makes no distinctions between people who identify as transgender who have obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate which changes their ‘gender’ in law, and those who have not. It has effectively introduced self-definition of ‘gender identity’ into the conduct of court proceedings, despite the fact that self-definition is not aligned with current law. This has not changed in the new guidance.

Another criticism of the previous ETBB was that it was partisan and adopted many of the tenets of gender identity theory as if they were matters of fact rather than opinion. This is discussed in depth in a Policy Exchange publication written in 2021 by Thomas Chacko, who also discusses the approach to self-identification in some detail.

The revised version of the ETBB continues to use language founded in gender identity theory which is widely contested, such as ‘gender assigned at birth’. Arguably, its overall approach remains imbued with gender identity theory, on which the implementation of self-definition of ‘gender identity’ is based."

The article from which the above quotes are taken has much more including the use of gender based language to express viewpoints with the ETBB and the very reticent treatment of the implications of Maya Forstater's case. Well worth a read.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2022/01/03/the-new-interim-version-of-the-equal-treatment-bench-book/

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 10/01/2022 20:05

The whole 'gender assigned at birth' bollocks can just fuck right off now. The only word they needed was sex.

Any victim must be able to correctly sex their attacker or rapist. Pronouns are irrelevant.

GoodieMoomin · 10/01/2022 20:18

So much of the current capture stems from the fantasy that humans can't almost always easily tell what sex people are.

If I'm standing in front of you I can no more keep my sex private than I can my height. It's absolute nonsense.

Goatsaregreat · 10/01/2022 20:22

It's tedious watching this painful retreat back to truth and honesty. How on earth is it not perjury for anyone to state something that they know is untrue as a witness?

We really are in Lala land and it's such a dangerous place to be for society. Reading about the rise in anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorists and the massive issues this throws up, yet here are so many of our institutions not only pushing fantasies and untruths, (which they're entitled to believe in if that's their thing) but finding ways to compel citizens to comply with them.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 10/01/2022 20:22

The revised ETBB recognises for the first time that witnesses have a right to refer to trans-identifying people using pronouns which align with their biological sex.

I know it's not enough, but it does my heart good to read that. I was spitting rivets when 60-year-old Maria Maclachlan was ordered by a judge to call her attacker a burly TW less than half her age as "she". Talk about adding insult to injury.

But reading on, I hope Maria's case straightforward violence, not sexual would actually be covered by the new rules. a victim of domestic abuse or sexual violence at the hands of a trans person may understandably describe the alleged perpetrator and use pronouns consistent with their gender assigned at birth because that is in accordance with the victim’s experience and perception of the events. Artificial steps such as requiring a victim to modify his/her language to disguise this risks interfering with his/her ability to give evidence of a traumatic event.

Yes, it's even more disgusting to force a woman to call her rapist "she". But pretending any attacker is female minimises the severity of the violence that male-bodied people so easily inflict on a woman.

KerennotKaren · 10/01/2022 20:28

Can someone with more knowledge than me flag this up with the Bar Council and the Law Society, please ? Not all lawyers have swallowed the KoolAid even if their professional bodies are tying themselves in knots to "be kind!" and "be inclusive!" whilst ignoring the inherent misogyny in both.

lovelyweathertoday · 10/01/2022 20:33

So would this have changed the case at Hyde Park? Maria McL?

Because if not it's still deeply unfair. If a person observes someone as a man they should be able to say so in court.

lovelyweathertoday · 10/01/2022 20:39

Having said that, I welcome the changes. It shows something is working!

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 10/01/2022 20:40

How on earth is it not perjury for anyone to state something that they know is untrue as a witness?

I've often wondered this, Goatsaregreat. What happened to witnesses swearing to tell "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"? Has that been changed to "the truth, some of the truth, and as much truth as I can without hurting the defendant's feelings"?

Lovelyricepudding · 10/01/2022 21:12

Surely using a suspects preferred pronous means there is no doubt that the person in court is the person the witness saw? There can be no quesion of identity for if there is then those pronouns may be wrong so which is the witness to use if the are divorced from sex and what the witness observes???

JellySaurus · 10/01/2022 21:39

that is in accordance with the victim’s experience and perception of the events. Artificial steps such as requiring a victim to modify his/her language to disguise this risks interfering with his/her ability to give evidence

With 'victim', this should also say 'witness'. This statement should apply to every person giving evidence.

It enrages me that women are expected to pay for the right to speak truthfully. And that the currency in which they pay is assault.

highame · 11/01/2022 07:42

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4291072-Policy-Exchange-Why-the-Equal-Treatment-Bench-Books-needs-urgent-revision

In case anyone wants to read further. Links to excellent article from Policy Exchange by Thomas Chacko

ChristinaXYZ · 12/01/2022 16:27

Thanks for that @highame

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