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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Welsh Government Period Dignity Action Plan Consultation

31 replies

MatureMam · 05/01/2022 09:21

The Welsh Government Period Dignity Action Plan is a good thing but many are concerned about the language used in the document being influenced by transgender ideology. Women and girls are mentioned but the WG's preferred term is 'people who have periods'. Males are, of course, also people, so this is nonsense. If you are concerned at all about the language use and feel it undermines the rights of female reproductive health, then please take part in the consultation, which ends on 12th January. gov.wales/period-dignity-strategic-action-plan

OP posts:
MatureMam · 05/01/2022 09:24

For any women in Wales concerned about our sex-based rights, I recommend looking at Merched Cymru.

OP posts:
stillamum22 · 05/01/2022 11:16

Thanks for the heads up! I looked at this earlier, the closing date is 12th Jan. This needs to get a response from as many women as possible. The terminology is dehumanising imo and includes 'those who have periods' (hard eye roll). I'm going to do some more digging.

MatureMam · 05/01/2022 13:35

I agree it is dehumanising. The Plan talks about dignity and reducing shame but also manages to make us feel it is in some way wrong or bigoted to talk about our female biology.

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murderbythebook · 05/01/2022 15:33

Good grief! I'm completing this now but the following paragraph:

"citizens in Wales feel able to access health based services around their period and related matters and are confident that these services will be sensitive and informed by sex and gender"

What health based services around their period will those of the male sex require?

Has noone actually read this thing before publication and thought "does this make sense?"

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 05/01/2022 16:09

Before this goes any further you are going to have to realise that language matters. Not something I ever thought I would write to the Welsh government!

Given that nothing you include makes women's experience of menstruation any easier for men it seem ludicrous that you use the term 'people'. That's asking 50ish% of the population who have no experience of a thing to tell you how it should be done. Every woman will tell you that no man needs voice his opinion as he has no idea whatsoever of the experiences, needs or wants of any woman whilst menstruating.

And if you think this is being inclusive think again. No transwoman menstruates. Like every other man, regardless of how much surgery they may have had, they will never experience menstruation.

If you mean to include transmen, well just bloody well say so. Should a transman still menstruate they will know they are female and can answer, ask, take part etc. So try that, if you must make the effort to show how inclusive you are being: women and transmen.

And no, you REALLY don't need to get into all the "many other genders" because in 6 months all of that will be yesterday's news or will be some new way of self referencing, that again, nobody else will be able to keep up with.

Just ask women what women want. It really isn't hard!

And you never know, you might increase the confidence that 50ish% of your population has in you! Which currently, as with many political parties, stands at a all time low with many women. Mainly because we are not non-trans, non men, cis or any other daft nomenclature. We are women: Adult human females.

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Just thought I'd fill in the first box

Olderbadger1 · 05/01/2022 16:47

WG are entirely captured by Stonewall (who were consulted on this as the go-to experts in periods apparently) and, as Workplace Champions are obliged to use 'gender-neutral' language for everything. Hence including men and all genders (hollow laugh) in their period policy documents.

I'll be responding to the consultation but with no expectation that my voice as an actual woman will carry any weight at all.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 05/01/2022 16:49

Yep. I live in the borderlands and occasionally bump into evidence of just how captured the WG is. Being able to compare Welsh and English examples of 'stuff' side by side is something of a treat!

Not so easy when the covid regs differ though.

MerchedCymru · 05/01/2022 16:58

Thanks for the mention OP. We are responding to this consultation with a heavy heart. There's so much that's helpful and reasonable in the draft strategy but Welsh Government's determination to prioritise gender over sex is profoundly depressing. If ever there was an occasion when women and girls should be centred, alongside the need for single-sex services and facilities this is it. And yet it's been hijacked.

We hope to get some pointers up on the Merched Cymru Facebook page by Monday at the latest for anyone who would like to respond to the consultation.
Or you could just cut and paste Hoarding's glorious reply!

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 05/01/2022 17:02

[Bows]

I may have been a little annoyed!

littlbrowndog · 06/01/2022 10:50

Bumping. Cos the Scottish and Welsh women are dealing with same bonkerniss

MerchedCymru · 06/01/2022 11:05

This has Stonewall written all over it. Don't mention women/girls/mothers etc. Of course Nancy Kelly as we know would dispute that was ever their aim.

334bu · 06/01/2022 12:32

Is this just for women who live in Wales?

OldCrone · 06/01/2022 12:40

Anyone can respond to the consultation 334bu. You don't have to live in Wales.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 06/01/2022 13:36

@334bu

Is this just for women who live in Wales?
No. Another issue they have is they don't actually define their target audience. So everyone and their dog/cat can answer.
fromorbit · 06/01/2022 14:01

Laura Ann Jones the Welsh Tory MS has spoken out: mobile.twitter.com/LauraJ4SWEast/status/1478512139967021063

334bu · 06/01/2022 14:11

Thank you will have a look .

GorgonzolaDreams · 08/01/2022 14:05

I started responding to this and it ended up being a bit of a rant lol!

I'm particularly angry that the EasyRead version doesn't mention girls at all and only uses the word woman ONCE - and that's because they are mentioning a Women's Health group...

This is a prime example of how twisted the notion of "inclusive" has become, when an EasyRead document, that is supposed to be written very clearly so that people with learning disabilities rae INCLUDED, is instead difficult for women and girls with learning disabilities to understand, or even to know it's meant to be aimed at them

GRRRRRR!

MatureMam · 08/01/2022 15:25

Yes @GorgonzolaDreams I'm also angry about the easy read version. It should use simple language to explain about periods but instead it is unclear and doesn't talk about the fact this is an issue that affects women at all. It's almost as if there is some shame in talking about periods as a female concern. Talking about women is becoming taboo and we have to use 'people who have periods' as a euphemism. So much for dignity and tackling period shaming.

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MerchedCymru · 08/01/2022 15:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Terfydactyl · 08/01/2022 17:01

No. Another issue they have is they don't actually define their target audience. So everyone and their dog/cat can answer

Oooh really, well maybe this should be reposted as a free for all. Call to arms like?
Plus if many many more women answer than even live in Wales it might make them think harder or improve things for women in Wales when they realise they have more women than they thought.

EarthSight · 08/01/2022 17:04

I do find it interesting that it's all about distigmatising periods........yet by using 'inclusive' language one could argue that they're sending a message to girls that the words 'women' and 'girls' are no longer good enough. Girls will pick up on that, and wanting to be super duper kind, maybe end up erasing their own language due to a pressure to be kind.

They are trying to erase stigma but are replacing it with another.

It's a bit like using euphemisms - some people don't like saying 'so & so' died. They find it almost rude. You're meant to say 'passed away' in some circles. I think this will be the same thing - we will no longer be allowed to say 'women' and 'girls' without it being considered blunt, unkind, and unnecessary in some circles.

EarthSight · 08/01/2022 17:06

Posted too soon. What meant was - some people don't like saying so & so died. As in the web 'to die'......not 'so & so'!

Kenneldogsrock · 08/01/2022 17:11

Thanks so much for flagging this - I’m going to respond now and I won’t be kind!

generalh · 08/01/2022 17:12

My response to each question was quite churlish but hey:
Stop the erosion of the word woman

Barbarantia · 08/01/2022 17:19

Groan, another healthcare initiative focusing on the bodily function rather than the bodies involved.

You can't get female healthcare right if you center the female body parts instead of the female human but it seems like women need to suffer chronic badly managed ailments again before we remember this.