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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cobra Kai S4

23 replies

Wanderingowl · 03/01/2022 13:34

Cobra Kai season 4 was released this week and I'm interested in what anyone who watched it might have thought. For those who don't know, Cobra Kai is a continuation of the original 4 Karate Kid movies. The first 3 Karate Kid movies in the 80s were based on Daniel, a teenage boy learning karate and twice winning the All Valley Karate championship. All the women in these movies serve as love interests or mothers. The 4th movie from the 90s has Hilary Swank play Julie, the next Karate Kid, and the first time a female character takes on a main role.

Cobra Kai, is a modern day continuation, focussed initially on the hero, Daniel, and antagonist, Johnny, of the first movies. The series is much more nuanced than the movies and looks at the first movie from the perspective of each main character. Casting some of Daniel's actions from the first movie in a less flattering light. Johnny, is shown with more sympathy from his perspective, but without excusing his worst actions from the movie. Johnny is also shown as having totally stagnated (in some ways unbelievably so) since the mid-80s. So a lot of the humour of the series comes from Johnny struggling with modern norms. The series, also features slew of 'next karate kids' with the children of the Johnny and Daniel, among others, learning karate and being influenced by the old rivalries.

Which brings me to why I'm posting about it here. In series 1, the girls and boys fought against each other at the All Valley Tournament. Secondary character Aisha, advances to the quarter finals where she is beaten by the previous champion. I felt quite uncomfortable watching it as teen boys and girls shouldn't have been fighting each other and it was unrealistic for Aisha to have advanced as far as she did. The following two series spanned part of the following year, where more girl fighters feature, and series 4 brings the characters to the next All Valley Championship. Halfway through the series, we get a scene of the board members watching a video of Aisha being beaten. One of the members states how unfair it is for girls to have to fight boys and that parents can't possibly be ok with watching their daughters get kicked and punched by boys. The board then votes to hold separate competitions for male and female fighters.

Obviously the writers benefit from this decision in terms of the additional drama they can include in the story. But at the same time, I really did wonder if they had decided to make a point. They showed footage of Aisha's season 1 fight that much more dramatically shows the reality of a boy fighting a girl. And at this moment in time, when people are starting to wake up to what is happening to women's sports. I wondered if the writers were making a point that males and females are physically different. And having male fighters go up against female fighters really isn't fair. While the more female fighters the show has, means that we do at times see some unrealistic fight situations between male and female fighters. I think the writers may also have felt that they couldn't push ahead and have the main girl characters advance far into the competition against even mediocre boys. So they had to divide the competition but also used something they had to do for dramatic purposes to make the point that male and female athletes can not compete against each other and that we shouldn't stand for it.

OP posts:
lucillelarusso · 03/01/2022 15:48

I honestly think the writers felt very strongly that they wanted to make a fun show that took into account none of the modern nuances about race/gender/sex/disability etc and just wanted to make something funny and ridiculous in a true 80s style. As a family we love the show for it. The madness of bringing weapons into school for an 'all out karate war', the total lack of any care being shown in the characterisation of different races/sexualities etc is part of what makes it so gloriously freeing to watch. Everyone is hilarious and awful and brilliant at the same time. And the appalling outfits worn by the teens and terrible fighting by the very unfit old men makes it outstandingly fun. I am a radical feminist who is currently involved in a personal war with the BBC regarding their misogyny so all I can say is this:

Strike First
Strike Hard
No Mercy!

Grin
Wanderingowl · 03/01/2022 16:16

I don't know. It's been very carefully tongue and cheek about a lot of modern 'woke' culture. Right from the very first season you have Daniel feeling hurt that people accuse him of cultural appropriation for his reverence of karate and bonsai trees. When they were things he feels deeply connected to because of his relationship with his surrogate father Mr Miyagi. In the first All Valley tournament, the former champ grabs the microphone from the black MC to inappropriately give very right on speech, while the MC looks clearly irritated, barely contains his eyes from rolling and grabs the mike back the instant he can, cutting short the 'moment of silence for tolerance' so they can get on with the tournament.

In this season, they poked at it more than ever, with Kreese using woke phrases to manipulate people like Amanda. And Johnny learning woke-speak to tempt Piper because of how much she cares about inclusivity. Only for her to almost immediately head off the to the dojo with a vicious philosophy because they are giving out free swag. And Johnny's great shutting down of the pronoun speak when Devon joined the dojo. They do it delicately, and are also clear that racism/sexism isn't ok. But they also seem to be hyper aware of things being more than a bit stupid right now and are undercutting it with humour.

OP posts:
Linguini · 03/01/2022 16:55

I must watch this

PurpleThursdays · 03/01/2022 17:17

In karate though, females do go up against males. Not sure about all each and every tournament, but in general sparring you could be a 5ft female going up against a 6ft male. You are taught to fight the same.

PurpleThursdays · 03/01/2022 17:22

But yes, I appreciate the way they touched upon and handled the current woke culture and it is a stark contrast to the Johnny Lawrence way of life. He has no idea what any of the current phrases mean.

DialSquare · 03/01/2022 17:27

I agree OP. Johnny made me chuckle when he said

“The only pronouns we accept in this dojo is sensei and student”

PurpleThursdays · 03/01/2022 17:28

Sorry, chipping in again, but one thing I will say is that when they introduced karate as an Olympic sport this year, there was male kumite (fighting) and female kumite.

rabbitwoman · 03/01/2022 17:48

I love Cobra Kai!!! Not least because I am a black belt (kickboxing) and I love the fighting but also the utterly unrealistic training and how it somehow translates to sick moves in all out karate war!!

Also me and my husband love to yell at the telly. 'great kick!!' 'don't just walk away, tell her how you feel!' 'that's actually attempted murder, phone the police!!' 'where is the safeguarding lead!!?' etc etc.

But I was pretty sour when it showed alisha competing against boys. That's madness. Glad it's addressed later.

I do get the feeling that these guys are all gryfendor, tho....

WarriorN · 03/01/2022 17:49

I need to watch this.

I'm my owm martial art males fought females but it was less contact and the tricks were as much about agility.

However. In reality the men's games were entirely different and everyone knew this. The men tailored their approach with women as we did with beginners. A certain style was more combative and in a true competition it would be sex based.

PurpleThursdays · 03/01/2022 18:13

Yes, in the dojos I've trained in, males go up against females in general training. You are trained to only contact 'to the touch'. You don't go all in, especially against youngsters. My friend (female) had a sparring match against a teenage, much taller male opponent. The both made contact (think she got him with 2 kicks) but you would definitely not spar at full speed, full power.

Hyenaormeercat · 03/01/2022 18:16

I love Cobra kai..the Johnny ' anti political correctness ' reminds me of the Alf Garnett being obnoxious as a piss take..unfortunately some didn't get the joke and some won't with Johnny!
In one of the first episodes, Miguel says he has asthma, Johnny throws his inhaler as its a made up condition and Miguel argues it's a real medical condition 😳 🤣

The Alisha fight definitely brings into the light the issues of males and females fighting if full contact.

My DD was a black belt and she fought boys in karate and won beat them in kata and sparring as technique was judged not Cobra kai style full contact fighting 😆 it was controlled.

PurpleThursdays · 03/01/2022 18:17

@rabbitwoman

I love Cobra Kai!!! Not least because I am a black belt (kickboxing) and I love the fighting but also the utterly unrealistic training and how it somehow translates to sick moves in all out karate war!!

Also me and my husband love to yell at the telly. 'great kick!!' 'don't just walk away, tell her how you feel!' 'that's actually attempted murder, phone the police!!' 'where is the safeguarding lead!!?' etc etc.

But I was pretty sour when it showed alisha competing against boys. That's madness. Glad it's addressed later.

I do get the feeling that these guys are all gryfendor, tho....

SPOILER ALERT Oh don't get me started on shouting at the telly. In s4, when Stingray returns to Cobra Kai, I was like "Woaaahhhh, one does not simply walk into a dojo and not bow. So disrespectful", plus when they shout "Yes, Sensei!", I always shout along "Uss, Sensei", plus some other choice japanese phrases. Can't help it.
Bagelsandbrie · 03/01/2022 18:31

I love Cobra Kai. I thought this season was as fun as ever but very interesting how they dropped some “woke” elements into it. Or rather challenged them.

“I’m asexual”
“Yeah he’s a sexual too” Grin

anotherchocolate · 03/01/2022 18:48

CK is one of my favourite shows ever - still to watch the latest series tho - but I've been worried ever since I heard it moved to Netflix that they'd be forced to shove in some typical Netflix wokery, especially since there's now a large cast of teenagers. I love that it's such a refreshing, entertaining series about everyday people obsessing to insane degrees over karate rivalries (and Amanda is the best, lol).

So I'm glad to hear the writers are still allowed to be smart in S4.

After all, they know their target audience - those (mainly men) who grew up with the original Karate Kid films. And for the most part, as a demographic, those men just aren't into the woke. If Johnny gave his pronouns at the start of every karate session, it would need to be played for laughs. It's just who the characters are.

rabbitwoman · 03/01/2022 18:50

I think the actor who plays jonny is an underrated genius.

Wanderingowl · 03/01/2022 19:40

@DialSquare

I agree OP. Johnny made me chuckle when he said

“The only pronouns we accept in this dojo is sensei and student”

That was great.

Devon: Hi, my pronouns are she/her.
Johnny: The only pronouns we accept in this dojo are sensei and student.
Devon: Those are nouns.
Johnny: Oh I'm sorry. I think what I meant to say was. QUIET!
Devon (very quiet): That's an imperative.
Johnny: Get in line.

And then, they went straight on with training, with Devon and Johnny being able to respect each other as student and sensei.

OP posts:
lucillelarusso · 03/01/2022 20:30

The actor who plays Johnny was nominated for an Oscar for a short film he made a few years ago, amazing man!

lucillelarusso · 03/01/2022 20:32

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most(20033_film)

AdamRyan · 04/01/2022 09:17

I love cobra kai!
I was a bit worried for a while in this series that Jonny was going to find a trans girl for the women's category - but instead he got the kick ass debater so all good.
I am starting to think that Kreese/Silver are starting to stretch credibility a bit.
Can't wait for series 5 now Grin

Bagelsandbrie · 04/01/2022 09:21

@AdamRyan

I love cobra kai! I was a bit worried for a while in this series that Jonny was going to find a trans girl for the women's category - but instead he got the kick ass debater so all good. I am starting to think that Kreese/Silver are starting to stretch credibility a bit. Can't wait for series 5 now Grin
I thought this as well and wondered how the whole boy / girl tournament would play out if they did.

Terry Silver is a fantastic baddie. Grin

Bagelsandbrie · 04/01/2022 09:22
I hadn’t heard of this. The plot sound heartbreaking!!
Bagelsandbrie · 04/01/2022 09:23

I’ve found the link for the film on you tube - I might watch it later …

ToastieSnowy · 04/01/2022 09:38

Series 4 sets up series 5 nicely, can’t wait. I like how the kids are not all good or bad but a mix depending on their experiences. Even Grease is learning.

I’ve always fought in mixed competition groups. Last time I came 4th in the sparring, my female sparring partner 2nd. I did win the mixed kata (sort of the CK ‘skills’ bit). So it’s true that it’s usual for males/females to fight each other. It is supposed to be partial not full contact though.

It does set my teeth that there’s no bowing and taking off shoes as soon as you enter the dojo. So disrespectful. Grin

Love Johnny, he tries so hard.

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