Chris Evert Supports Martina Navratilova

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

Chris Ever quote tweets Martina in support of her.

twitter.com/ChrissieEvert/status/1474747853671219204?s=20

Martina's quoted tweet:

It is not fair for women to race against transgender Lia Thomas: Olympic champ Nancy Hogshead-Makar | Daily Mail Online- a well reasoned and fair take on trans women inclusion in women’s sports, IMO. Well done Nancy! dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10341327/It-not-fair-women-race-against-transgender-Lia-Thomas-Olympic-champ-Nancy-Hogshead-Makar.html

*I completely disagree with the opening paragraph in this article

Transgender women should be allowed to compete in women's athletics, so long as these individuals can show that they've mitigated the athletic advantages that come with male puberty*

Me too. It is not possible to mitigate the effects of puberty.

As for starting puberty blockers before puberty....that is child abuse.
In any case I highly doubt that a child who spends their childhood trailing round gender clinics, comparing notes on the internet, and being dosed with drugs that mess with their development and in some cases having multiple surgeries are ever likely to be able to reach athletic prowess.

The other athletes have dedicated their lives to training from early childhood, maximising their health, fitness and honing their technique.

*I completely disagree with the opening paragraph in this article

Transgender women should be allowed to compete in women's athletics, so long as these individuals can show that they've mitigated the athletic advantages that come with male puberty*

See, conversely I do agree with this opening statement but I also do not think it's possible. What we should do is acknowledge the truth in that - it is not possible to remove male advantage in trans women athletes. Therefore, you just cannot allow trans women in women's sports.

And even if there WAS a process by which ALL male puberty advantage could be removed and that could reliably be measured, what about ensuring that trans men can be included in sport too? Because currently, they can neither compete fairly with men OR women if they are on testosterone, so until a way can be found for sport to be inclusive for ALL transgender people, not just trans women, surely the fairest thing to do is stick to biological sex categories?

I guess the writer was bending over backwards to be reasonable. I'd have worded it differently- though the result should be the same:

Transgender women should only be allowed to compete in women's athletics if these individuals can prove that they've fully mitigated the athletic advantages that come with being male.

Note that 'Male puberty' alone isn't necessarily an adequate criterion - there's evidence from reports on castrati that they had exceptional lung capacity. Their voices were valued for their power and range at time when women were also allowed to be opera singers.

...really, much simpler to just stick with everyone competing in their correct sex category, and have more 'open' if people want that - but never instead of womens sports. There's obviously no justification whatever for segregating sports by 'gender'.

She's sticking with it..

twitter.com/ChrissieEvert/status/1475276483002314754

Even better!

I think that Martina and Chris are brave and wonderful, and have exposed themselves to real risk.

However, I would suggest that the vast majority of tennis fans, both those who attend matches, and those who watch it on TV and are therefore the captive audience for advertisers and sponsors, will be GC on this subject at least.

Do you honestly think that the anime activists put any real money in the pocket of Adidas or Under Armour? Are they buying tickets, or ferrying their kids to tennis coaching? I don’t reckon so.

Tennis is one of the few sports where the women can be just as famous and admired as the men (not paid as much, obvs!), so people who have watched their favourite female tennis stars rise up and battle do not want them humiliated by a mediocre males.

This is where sport May break through where art/ media/ culture cannot. TRAs can shout and scream about JKR and just make stuff up, and be given the column inches for it, but they do not have the clout in the sports media.

Female tennis stars can earn just as much as the men surely? I thought the prize money was now equal? And the advertising and sponsorship possibilities are huge.

There hasn't been a mediocre male who dared enter the women's game yet (that I know of) and I think there's a reason for that. It's so obvious, with just two players on court, and fans and a crowd who are often highly partisan. It will be a brave man that tries to gaslight the wimbledon crowd and deprive Emma Rqdicanu of her rightful prizes.

But I long for it to happen, I really do, because that really will be the line in the sand and the beginning of the end imo.

[quote HPFA]She's sticking with it..

twitter.com/ChrissieEvert/status/1475276483002314754[/quote]
Go, Chrissie!

@FannyCann

Female tennis stars can earn just as much as the men surely? I thought the prize money was now equal? And the advertising and sponsorship possibilities are huge.

There hasn't been a mediocre male who dared enter the women's game yet (that I know of) and I think there's a reason for that. It's so obvious, with just two players on court, and fans and a crowd who are often highly partisan. It will be a brave man that tries to gaslight the wimbledon crowd and deprive Emma Rqdicanu of her rightful prizes.

But I long for it to happen, I really do, because that really will be the line in the sand and the beginning of the end imo.

Tennis was way ahead of the curve on mediocre men competing as women: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards

I’m glad to see that the prize money has evened out.

Thank you Chris.

I think about Emma Raducanu and I just know she's not going to touch this with a barge pole. Her agent would do their nut if she goes there - frankly in either direction, though probably less so if she went 'inclusive' (actively misleading though that is) . And I feel angry that sport has been so neutered by money. Difficult because I was as upset as anyone else when Glenn Hoddle said disabled people had done bad things in a previous life or whatever it was. It was interesting hearing such utter insanity from an apparently normal person. But he was sacked because society at large doesn't want to hear stuff lie that from influential people. And thats the problem- I really don't want to hear pro-life slogans or 'Orban isn't so bad' etc from sports stars. So we should be careful what we wish for.

The whole reason I came to Mumsnet earlier this year was after hearing a Radio 4 play by Mark Lawson on the subject of a young transwoman wanting to compete in a women's tennis tournament. In the end s(he) was not allowed to, for the sake of fairness.
I have since Googled this play and it has vanished without trace. I think it was called Baselines or similar.....
I wonder where Wimbledon would stand in this situation....

Women’s tennis is worth hundreds of millions of pounds in sponsorship, ticket sales, endorsements and advertising - no one wants to be seen to rocking the golden cash cow so it has to be amazing older women like CE and Martina who draw a line on this. Keeping the ladder down behind you for a change. This is ace.

I wonder where Wimbledon would stand in this situation

Various sports bodies have made statements and issued guidance from the IOC to rugby, gymnastics and swimming.
I haven't seen one from any of the tennis authorities, which isn't to say they haven't come up with statements or policies. I just haven't seen them. If anyone else has I'd welcome finding out what their stance is on this. Although there was the case of Renee Richardson who later said it wouldn't have been fair if they had competed in their youth at the height of their prowess.

I suspect Wimbledon has deployed the highly effective ostrich position so far.

@ArtemesiaK

The whole reason I came to Mumsnet earlier this year was after hearing a Radio 4 play by Mark Lawson on the subject of a young transwoman wanting to compete in a women's tennis tournament. In the end s(he) was not allowed to, for the sake of fairness. I have since Googled this play and it has vanished without trace. I think it was called Baselines or similar..... I wonder where Wimbledon would stand in this situation....

This play @ArtemesiaK?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000615s

Interestingly, with a "Sorry, this episode is not currently available". But in fairness I went back and forth a bit on the links to 'previous' and 'next' episodes, and the 'Sorry' message was on most of them.

That's the one, @WhereYouLeftIt. I Googled it soon after I'd heard it and the link to Mumsnet was about the only one that came up...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4271412-Radio-4-Afternoon-Drama-blimey

@OperationDessertStorm

Women’s tennis is worth hundreds of millions of pounds in sponsorship, ticket sales, endorsements and advertising - no one wants to be seen to rocking the golden cash cow so it has to be amazing older women like CE and Martina who draw a line on this. Keeping the ladder down behind you for a change. This is ace.

And women's tennis would surely collapse if they put men in it.

Who in Hell would buy a ticket or turn on a TV to watch the unedifying spectacle of men pretending to be women playing tennis!

That's why no one has dared do it yet @Triphazards

Emma Radacanu now has sponsorship deals with Dior and Tiffany.
Would these fashion houses be likely to lavish their largesse on a male winner? I realise some trans women are getting minor deals and some work modelling dodgy lingerie and the like especially from brands keen to burnish their woke credentials but I don't see that working for the big companies that are involved in tennis.
And they would be put in a tricky position - pass over the winning champion in favour of the runner up?

I wonder what Billie Jean King thinks about this.

“There is no place in any sport for discrimination of any kind,” King said. “I’m proud to support all transgender athletes who simply want the access and opportunity to compete in the sport they love. The global athletic community grows stronger when we welcome and champion all athletes—including LGBTQI+ athletes.”

www.si.com/more-sports/2020/12/21/idaho-anti-transgender-law-briefs

BJK is supportive of transwomen in women's aports

Brava Chris !

I wonder if it was Billie Jean King’s comment that prompted Chrissie tweet. So Martina was not alone.

I think women who support transwomen in women's sport are either lacking in imagination or empathy. Because if they can imagine how frustrating and upsetting it must be for up and coming female athletes and choose to ignore it they should be ashamed of themselves.....
I'm embarrassed for you, BJK.

BJK took part in the "Battle of the Sexes" tennis match against Bobby Riggs so I'm a bit surprised she doesn't see an issue with men playing against women 😔