GC v something else, TRA v TDA

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Saw this on twitter a while ago and been thinking about what GC means and whether my lack of interest in gender makes me a biological believer or a gender atheist or something else...

TRAs are arguing for things which are not their rights. They have equal rights in law, what they are doing is demanding my rights.

Someone, whom I can't recall or now find on twitter, suggested referring to these people as Trans Demand Activists.

I think she's right.

Trans demand activists sounds more accurate than trans rights activists. They already have rights. Now they have a list of demands, much of which involves stripping others of their rights.

While I see the point you are making, OP, I don't see any advantage to changing a letter as it's the same old whine, just in new bottles.

Quite often, it's more accurate to call them anti-women's rights activists - because some of their so-called allies aren't really acting in the best interests of trans people.

ErrolTheDragon said ...

because some of their so-called allies aren't really acting in the best interests of trans people.

which is interesting and illuminating.

Now, if I could just get everybody** to consider the 'Source' before taking offence ... we'd be getting somewhere

**(on both sides of the fence)

The idea that trans individuals have rights is correct. Trans individuals are protected group as I understood it in UK law.

However the practice of having those rights applied to their daily lives is somewhat different.

I am not comparing trans individuals to their cis counterparts, instead I am only highlighting that trans individuals, which are a very small minority of the UK population, are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

Again I won't list examples because there is plenty there to be found and again, I have no doubt there will be plenty of people giving counterpoints. What I can say, as a trans individual myself, I have noticed these rights are not always as accessible as they could be.

Which rights?

Employment and employment protection?
Access to education?
Access to housing?
Access to non- universal state benefits?
Access to health care?

Your post isn't particularly helpful or informative as it stands.

Again I won't list examples because there is plenty there to be found and again

Why not list examples?

Beyond random Googling I wouldn't begin to know where to find this information.

They're not a protected group, anymore than women are.

What rights do they have that someone else is preventing them accessing?

@Sonex

They're not a protected group, anymore than women are.

What rights do they have that someone else is preventing them accessing?

Well strictly speaking, they are not a protected group any more than men are. Denying employment, housing or services to anyone just because they are a woman/man/ gay/ etc. in most circumstances breaches equality legislation.

@thequeerteacher

The idea that trans individuals have rights is correct. Trans individuals are protected group as I understood it in UK law.

However the practice of having those rights applied to their daily lives is somewhat different.

I am not comparing trans individuals to their cis counterparts, instead I am only highlighting that trans individuals, which are a very small minority of the UK population, are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

Again I won't list examples because there is plenty there to be found and again, I have no doubt there will be plenty of people giving counterpoints. What I can say, as a trans individual myself, I have noticed these rights are not always as accessible as they could be.

It would be useful if you could cite a couple of examples though. Then we can analyse them... You often hear that trans people have less rights, but you don't often hear actual examples.

@thequeerteacher

The idea that trans individuals have rights is correct. Trans individuals are protected group as I understood it in UK law.

However the practice of having those rights applied to their daily lives is somewhat different.

I am not comparing trans individuals to their cis counterparts, instead I am only highlighting that trans individuals, which are a very small minority of the UK population, are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

Again I won't list examples because there is plenty there to be found and again, I have no doubt there will be plenty of people giving counterpoints. What I can say, as a trans individual myself, I have noticed these rights are not always as accessible as they could be.

So then you are saying that trans people do have rights, but bigoted society gets in the way.

Do you feel that the current 'trans activism' which in infringing on women's sports, women's spaces, women's identity, women's definitions is going to improve the way society perceives trans people?

Because i really don't think it is. All this bullying lobbying and stripping other people of spaces, rights and words is quite frankly not making the trans minority look very good.

I would say that we feminists are pretty open minded, inteligent, liberal people so we can see that it's not 'all trans people', but wait until the masses start to understand what is going on. Things will not be comfortable for trans people, I don't imagine and that's pretty sad.

Rather than fighting feminists I would suggest speaking to trans lobbying groups to express concerns before they do pretty serious damage to how trans people are perceived.

We are not your enemy.

trans individuals, which are a very small minority of the UK population, are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

Which rights are they unable to access?

I’d go for Trans Tantrum Activists myself for the type that gets discussed here, but I think TRA is fairly established nomenclature by now.

I do like how the acronym is vaguely onomatopoeic, like a howl of incoherent rage.

Would love examples of some of the rights people who identify as trans have trouble accessing?

Following in the hope that @thequeerteacher does answer the requests for examples….

are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

This is going to be about that "bigoted societal expectation" that women don't have a penis isn't it. And us feminists keep insisting we should have the right to single-sex (penis free) spaces.

@thequeerteacher

The idea that trans individuals have rights is correct. Trans individuals are protected group as I understood it in UK law.

However the practice of having those rights applied to their daily lives is somewhat different.

I am not comparing trans individuals to their cis counterparts, instead I am only highlighting that trans individuals, which are a very small minority of the UK population, are often not able to access those rights based upon bigoted social expectations.

Again I won't list examples because there is plenty there to be found and again, I have no doubt there will be plenty of people giving counterpoints. What I can say, as a trans individual myself, I have noticed these rights are not always as accessible as they could be.

Just reading through.

I know that discrimination around employment, housing etc is common for some trans people (essentially males who are obviously GNC 100% of time).

I am aware that there are issues around high levels of prostitution and homelessness (again mainly certain sub groups) and widespread MH issues.

I have visited loads of trans orgs sites and had a good read, looked at plenty of reports from orgs on issues, some including the ones above.

I am very concerned and confused by the fact that despite so many orgs, and these issues being raised often, there seems to be little, often no, objectives, actions etc by the groups to do anything to help.

They all seem to focus on training, advocating, lobbying a range of other types of orgs etc to do things.

Eg one org I read report highlighted homelessness as a serious issue.

the actions from the report didn't even mention homelessness!

Actions were mainly (all?) around need for various public orgs etc to get more training.

This really bothered me. There's no doubt that certain sub groups of trans people are vv vulnerable having awful time.

But the focus across the board is just nothing to do with helping them.

It's all TWAW, women's spaces, children and consent to xyz under 18 etc etc.

That is NOT RIGHT. It's upsetting and it's just plain wrong.

Discrimination laws don't actually mean there isn't any!

Loads of types of people face elevated risk of discrimination. Because it happens all the time. Often hidden. If not, challenging it is for a variety of reasons, decided my many as not what they going to do.

The group of trans people most at risk of discrimination, an assumption but I think a fair one, will be males who always 'present' with obvious stereotypical look clothes etc for women.

To me it's obv that a male in eg a skirt, tights, blouse, bouffed bob, lipstick and a handbag is going to have more difficulty finding a job. Possibly will need to reduce possibilities to opportunities known to be genuinely not fussed?

Problem for me is while it's obvious certain subset of trans people will experience discrimination.

The orgs that exist to support trans people seem to have zero interest in actually helping trans people who are actually in need of help.

It's an utter disgrace. And imo says everything anyone needs to know about what the orgs etc actually want.

And it's nothing to do with working for and with individual trans people to address their problems. They are being USED.

On homelessness it is legal to discriminate in flat/house share situations on all the protected grounds except race.

So I suppose it's possible that a trans person might be more likely to be rejected as a flat mate than a non trans person but equally it may well come down to personality and other views.

www.akt.org.uk/

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/national-programmes/youth-activism/youth-commission-housing-and-homelessness/

These mention LGBT homelessness in the 16- 25 age group but they are both a bit scant on facts.

I could well be wrong but my understanding is that being brought up in local authority care created the greatest risk of homelessness than any other factor.

Flatshares/ houseshares are one section of options for renting etc housing though.

Interesting, and understandable, fair enough when sharing.

Interesting point. Doesn't negate the point though.

Given that homelessness is a major issue for certain subgroups of trans individuals.

One that is raised often by trans orgs.

Why is there no actual hands on, direct action from trans orgs in general? (I've looked at many, zilch).

The approach invariably seems to be:

Stats, individual stories etc to highlight issues and so trans people really need help and now.

Orgs response.
Buy lots of training, open anything previously for female people to everyone, children must be able to get hormones surgery essentially on demand at any age.

Er, my friend was rejected from a flat share recently for being 'not queer' enough, so I reckon this kind of juvenile behaviour that we all had to put up with as students (remember notes in the fridge?) works both ways.

Kimoko-
Yes care leavers at elevated risk for host of shit.

My point is not about general situation homelessness.

My point is that orgs that exist to help specifically trans people.

Identify homelessness as an issue, raise it when saying yes trans people are vulnerable.

But in general the orgs who talk about this and other issues for the group they exist to help. Don't actually seem to DO anything about it with the resources they have.

Why no actions eg.
Identify areas/ risk factors for trans people that mean more likely to be homeless.
Work with other trans orgs to plan how to help. Where, method etc.
Deliver plan.

Why not priority? To use/ gather data and think how best to tackle immediate needs, and then do it?

I mean. FFS.

@Sonex

Er, my friend was rejected from a flat share recently for being 'not queer' enough, so I reckon this kind of juvenile behaviour that we all had to put up with as students (remember notes in the fridge?) works both ways.

That sounds like they are quite young? I don’t think anyone would argue that trans people do have rights but unfortunately also face some discrimination. Which I’d happily stand up against but they make it hard when instead of offering ways to support they want to attack and take over womens rights and don’t care about women and children’s safety. they = TRAs, obviously not all trans people but TRAs are working hard on giving them all a bad name.

In general. From what I've seen.

And I would LOVE to see that loads of trans orgs are helping on the ground with support etc tailored to the specific needs of trans individuals around serious issues and their needs/barriers etc.

But loads of trans orgs just don't seem to be doing anything hands on themselves.