Should we dispense with the word gender critical and just call ourselves biological realists?

[Stopsnowing]

Just that really. If sex matters and gender is mainly irrelevant shall we just stop referring to being gender critical?

While I agree that labels are powerful they also become something to smear.

I prefer to argue the points.

@ScrollingLeaves

Because of TWAW any ‘woman’ word is out, sadly.

I disagree. We need to reclaim the women.

A friend with teens has found that as they're so steeped in the labels, GC is just dismissed without engaging with the arguments behind the label.

who may not agree that all things related to gender are entirely ‘socially constructed’.

Anything related to 'gender' is by definition socially constructed. It's just the (relatively few) things related to sex which aren't. Reproductive role is sex; parenting roles being allocated to mum vs dad are gender. Women not being allowed to play football was gender; women needing women only teams is sex.

LovelyRicePudding, I crossed posts with you and had not seen you suggested ‘Women’s Rights’ and being very clear.

It does sound clear, but would it get conflated with ‘trans women’s rights’?

If the term woman is disputed then you can't use it for clarity

“DNA believers”?

I think 'Biology Believers' sounds great! After all that's what we're saying - people can't change their biological sex.
That biology is real and not a feeling.

Part of what we are campaigning for is correct use of language to describe sex. We can't do that is we join in the obfuscation of it. We also know that any word used to describe women as a separate sex is claimed or disallowed so we get nowhere trying to find alternative words.

Women. Adult human female. Female is the sex class that produces large immobile gametes. We are campaigning for our right to describe ourselve as this and for men to be excluded from this regardless of how they identify.

Errol
“Anything related to 'gender' is by definition socially constructed. It's just the (relatively few) things related to sex which aren't. Reproductive role is sex; parenting roles being allocated to mum vs dad are gender. Women not being allowed to play football was gender; women needing women only teams is sex.”

Yes, of course you are right.
But humans in the end are social beings who will tend to construct things; and they are animal beings who signal their sex; and the elements that are entirely physical are entwined with what is social in away that is not easy to disentangle always.

What I am saying is that, pragmatically, not all women are going to see themselves and their lives as the being the result of a social construction. They never heard of GC before and don’t know what it means.

They do know they are not the same as the person arrested for being a pedophile who sexually abused a dog.

They do know they are not the same as the person arrested for being a pedophile who sexually abused a dog, whose ‘pronoun’ is ‘she’ and who is presenting as a woman.

@bordermidgebite

If the term woman is disputed then you can't use it for clarity

I am not going to roll over and let you take 'woman' because you think it kind to let men use it. Everything else, in terms of destruction of our rights, follows from this.

Oh, God, yes! Let me be a 'SEX-CENTRED FEMINIST'! It's the role I've been looking for all my life!

@ErrolTheDragon

The thing about emphasising biological sex though, is that some of 'gender stereotype critical feminism' is about not overemphasising (or inventing) sex differences. The differences between the sexes are real, and immutable, but for most things they're not important and shouldn't be used to block or coerce peoples opportunities. Girls can be engineers, boys can be good parents. Etc.

Yep

It sounds to me like we're looking for two labels here. Let's be clear about this

1. A name for those women who are fighting gender ideology as part of our feminism. So, we're looking for something like "women's rights activist" here.

1. A name that sums up a belief in evidence-based biology and the lack of belief in gender woo. So, something like "biological realist" but without negative connotations. This isn't to do with feminism at all, but a wider term that anyone in society could use to show they don't believe in gender nonsense. We need a word here that the general public feel comfortable using.

Finding a word for the second one would be immensely useful IMO.

Pro-life / pro-choice is a good example. We are pro-choice as part of our feminism, but people can use the word pro-choice to express their stance on abortion without having to subscribe to any wider belief system or framework. (Although I agree in PR terms it could be a better term).

We need a term that gets across that the TRAs are essentially flat-earthers and we're reality / evidence based.

I think the word reality is important here as I suspect, with the rise of virtual worlds and increase in things like surrogacy, extreme cosmetic surgery, bio-hacking and interest in trans humanism, this won't be the only time we have to remind the government that reality exists and that it matters. Particularly to women, given our bodies produce and nurture babies, and to those babies.

Female-centered feminism.

Should be a tautology. The fact it isn't highlights the absurdity we are in.

Exulansic uses the term 'gender atheist'. I could happily term myself a 'Women's Rights Activist' who is also a gender atheist.

Doesn't KJK use 'femalism' for her kind of feminism?

Science positive
Pro-Science
Anti-stereotype
Pro-DNA

Nothing wrong with

Feminist
Woman

Our position hasn't changed so I don't see why the description should.

It'll be 'let's choose a flag' next.

Don't get sucked into the madness. Remain resolute and steadfast.

Apologies - we already have a flag, of course
www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/electionsvoting/womenvote/parliamentary-collections/collections-suffragettes/flag/

Good point about the two terms.

'Pro-science' gets us closer. I think it is also better to be for something. It also makes it clearer what TRAs are arguing - that they are anti-women's rights and anti-science.

I am not keen on 'realism'

Some 'anti' labels are fine though.

Anti racist.
Anti fascist (pity they don't all seem to know what 'fascism' actually is, but still).
Anti sexist is still ok afaik.

Pro-reality 😄