Motherhood, womanhood, gender and what that means to a child.

[NeedsCharging]

I ask that those who choose to comment do so in line with MNHQ rules.

As those on this bored are aware the drive to remove the word women/mother from everyday language and medical language is an ongoing issue. I see threads on this topic that discuss how that impacts women.
Today a well known newspaper ran a story concerning a transman who has given birth and their personal views on the language used to address them by their medical team.

While that language is an issue I would like to discuss the impact it may have on a child if/when they are told they do not have a mother.
Specifically will the child struggle with the concept of no mother at all?
Will that positively or negatively affect them as they have a mother in the biological sense but not allowed to say that?
I am interested in views about the child not any views about the parents.

Pleases do not delete this MNHQ as it isn't a TAAT but a question regarding parentage and how that affects children.

I agree with JellySaurus; it would be similar to being brought up in a fundamentally religious household, although the child will eventually come upon the actual existence of sex based biology whereas the existence of a deity can only ever be a belief.

Also, I thought that requests to have two fathers on the child's birth certificate were refused. That document belongs to the child and states the facts of their birth, not the ideology of the parents.

I still find it baffling that women can become pregnant and give birth but deny that they are actually women, hence all the 'birthing-person', and 'chest-feeding' language.

I’m not sure for this particular family it can only be considered the same as a faith based upbringing because faith doesn’t deny your biological roots which most people find very important. There is a huge risk that the child will feel incredibly betrayed which I don’t generally think comes about in faith based households.

I can see the link though and more generally I think a child being raised to believe in trans ideology is being raised in a faith based household, but it might not directly impact them when they learn the truth about biological sex as their parents may not be trans themselves. Their parents may just believe TWAW and men can give birth and that’s what the child is told.

You are right about birth certificates. McConnell lost the case to get them adapted so it would say father instead of mother. Thank god. Can’t remember if it lost at appeal also.

@MagpiePi

I agree with JellySaurus; it would be similar to being brought up in a fundamentally religious household, although the child will eventually come upon the actual existence of sex based biology whereas the existence of a deity can only ever be a belief.

Also, I thought that requests to have two fathers on the child's birth certificate were refused. That document belongs to the child and states the facts of their birth, not the ideology of the parents.

I still find it baffling that women can become pregnant and give birth but deny that they are actually women, hence all the 'birthing-person', and 'chest-feeding' language.

Yes: in a faith based position you may come to realise that not everyone believes, that other faiths and beliefs exist, and you may choose not to believe at all.

This is going to be discovering that the information shared was knowingly, fundamentally not so, and that they were intentionally misled for the adult's personal needs.

I wonder also what message it sends to a daughter (not sure if this person has a son or a daughter). A mother is a girl's very first role model, the example of what you will grow up to be (i.e. an adult human female). Imagine that person effectively telling you that growing up to be a woman is so awful that they won't admit to being one. How can a little girl process this? Your mum, standing in front of you, doesn't want to be your mum. Being female is unmentionable.

Imagine having to dance around the illusions of your own parents. Should be the other way round, mum playing along that her child is a puppy or dinosaur today!

I’m an adoptive mum to two wonderful children. We have two fundamental rules in our house. 1) we never lie to our kids, we may tell the truth in an age appropriate way, but we never lie. 2) nothing about their past comes as a surprise, we drip feed tiny bits of info at any given opportunity. Nothing comes as a shock. If you don’t tell kids stuff, they do create their own reality. My kids are young, but in a few years - when they seriously start asking questions (and they will, and we are probably in for a few rough years) we will have already laid the groundwork -truth and information. I was at a conference once were this was discussed and it went something like this…at age 4 they want to know who they are, at age 7 they want to know who you are…at age 9 they want to know who they are but also ‘who the fuck are you?’

With the Christmas rush I hadn't checked MN...sorry OP, I thought I knew the rules and had followed them in this thread. I was concerned about protecting children when they are born.

Over Christmas, my little nephew (18 mo) kept calling all his uncles dada and all his aunts mama. To him, men of a certain age are daddies and women of a certain age are mommies. I think it would have been quite confusing (and a little mean spirited) if we deviated from his toddler logic and demanded to be called different titles.

One thing we know about women, is that we were all born from one, surely. Are we going to take this knowledge away from children now?

I believe some people are. I have had two men tell me their child (acquired through surrogacy obv) does not have a mother. I said "of course there is a mother. Every single person on this planet has a mother" to which I was told my understanding of biology was different to theirs.

I think most adoptive parents take a similar stance to PP who have diligently researched best advice and are carefully explaining their child's origins in an age appropriate way as they grow up, mindful of their child's needs.

These men who seek to erase the woman from their child's life will surely find it's not so simple as their child grows up and goes to school and asks questions. I'm sure there will be a lot of children growing up for whom the details of how they came to be are erased and we will have to see how that works out as they grow up. I fear that boys will grow up with a poor view of women. For girls who may want to be mothers one day I think it may be very difficult.

A friend is adopted, she had a happy, secure childhood. I think motherhood hit her like a brick wall. Instead of going back to work as she had planned she found she couldn't leave her baby, or entrust it to anyone else. Her determination to be the "perfect" parent caused some difficulties in their own way. It clearly impacted how she adapted to motherhood in ways she hadn't forseen.

How we parent our children is influenced by our own upbringing, for better or worse. We find ourselves perhaps with new understanding of why our parents did particular things, of the influences on them. Maybe we are determined not to repeat harmful behaviours. Or maybe we model ourselves on the good example set by our mothers. Our memories inform our own behaviours and these children will have their own challenges to face.

@Delphinium20

With the Christmas rush I hadn't checked MN...sorry OP, I thought I knew the rules and had followed them in this thread. I was concerned about protecting children when they are born.

Over Christmas, my little nephew (18 mo) kept calling all his uncles dada and all his aunts mama. To him, men of a certain age are daddies and women of a certain age are mommies. I think it would have been quite confusing (and a little mean spirited) if we deviated from his toddler logic and demanded to be called different titles.

Not to mention that unless you keep your toddler isolated from contact with all other toddlers, they're rapidly going to learn about the world.

A friend's kids have been raised very happily within a lesbian relationship. They still by 18 months were happily shouting 'daddy!' at everyone they identified as male, having picked up the concept from other kids.