The gas-lighting of young women

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

I have young adult two cousins who are trans (FTM), one of whom has had full top and bottom surgery. Another cousin in her 20s is a trans rights activist, despite being female, both biologically and in her gender ID, and not being trans. This is not social contagion - I have over 100 first and second cousins, living in various countries and the people concerned will have met once or twice, if at all.

I feel somewhat irritated with the TRA cousin, as she comes from a privileged background (not true of all my family, by any means), and is giving no thought to the impact of removing single sex spaces on poorer women. She lives in another country and, sadly, it looks as if self-ID will become law there. Mostly, though, I feel sad for them all. Both the trans-identifying cousins are actually lesbian, IME. They live in countries where being gay is theoretically fine - one is in the UK - but in practice, being a gay woman is still stigmatised. Both were, pre-transition, gender non-conforming in a way that would have been unremarkable in the 70s/80s/90s, but now gets you labelled trans. And all three of them have been gas-lit by society to value men before women, and to think they are progressive by doing so 😞

You say it's not social contagion but so much of young adults lives are online nowadays.
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc they are all platforms heavily promoting the "right think" and banning anyone gender critical.
It doesn't help that academia and politics is heavily infected with gender ideology.

It's a huge shame healthy young women are caught up in it all, but please always remember the ideology is completely unsustainable because it's built on lies.

You may have lost a few cousins but they may well end up being lighthouses for future victims.

@Linguini

You say it's not social contagion but so much of young adults lives are online nowadays. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc they are all platforms heavily promoting the "right think" and banning anyone gender critical. It doesn't help that academia and politics is heavily infected with gender ideology.

It's a huge shame healthy young women are caught up in it all, but please always remember the ideology is completely unsustainable because it's built on lies.

You may have lost a few cousins but they may well end up being lighthouses for future victims.

Sorry, I meant it's not social contagion within my family - it's not as if all 3 of them have got together around the Christmas lunch table to discuss gender ideology.

I think you're absolutely right that it's probably social contagion from broader society. The TRA has been to an extremely 'progressive' (for which read: 'cares about everyone's rights, except women's) university. Scarily, she is now a science teacher 😬

I'm sad for her though, as she is a lovely, well-meaning young woman who could be doing so much good in the world, if she hadn't been taken in by this crazy ideology, which is teaching her to put her own needs last.

You're 'not sure' because it's bullshit, Zyzzx. HTH!

It's scary, OP. I am hoping society wakes up and moves on before my children are put at risk from this pernicious, mendacious, dangerous anti-science ideology.

Hatred of what?

I’ve been learning from these boards for years but I don’t hate anyone. And I have not been gaslit. (I recognise gaslighting when I see it, having experienced it first hand).

Sometimes it seems like any time there is a thread on here posted by a woman who's worried about someone in her family, or upset about something in her personal life, it gets targeted with nasty comments.

I would just like to point out that this isn't how normal people react. Be Kind indeed.

It's the patriarchy at it's best (worst) isn't it OP?

What was it that JKR said? 'Times Change. Woman-hate is eternal'

@Zyzzx

What hatred..... I mean asking stupid follow up questions is a Troll 101 move to try and get people to be annoyed through the sheer stupidity of it. So well done! Either that or you are so swept up with the echo chamber and nobody disagreeing, you can't see how anybody could find the sentiments that are posted all over this site to be hatred. Either way there is no point in me even trying to argue against you is there? I just wanted to post as a mother because it absolutely shocks me that the people here consider themselves feminists, and that is not the world I want my daughter growing up in.

You're going to have to be more specific about the sentiments, because mainly what I see is things like:

• wanting to keep the language we use to describe ourselves

• wanting spaces to be kept free of males where safety, privacy, dignity requires it

-wanting fair play (and safety) in sports -wanting freedom of speech and belief and the right to express that men cannot be women.

Is any of that hatred?!

Oh look another person has turned up to tell us all how we're big meanies. Great.

Leafstamp

• wanting to keep the language we use to describe ourselves
• wanting spaces to be kept free of males where safety, privacy, dignity requires it

-wanting fair play (and safety) in sports -wanting freedom of speech and belief and the right to express that men cannot be women.

Is any of that hatred?!

yzzx
Yeah....

Well. That's cleared that up.

Your posts are so vague, Zzyxx, that I really can't respond to them. Bit odd banging on about 'stupidity', but have at it if it makes you happy.

Meanwhile, here's a post from Women's Aid, on how to spot gaslighting. In case anyone is a little confused by what is meant by the term:

grampian-womens-aid.com/newsevents/gaslighting-10-signs/

Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic in which a person, to gain power and control of another individual, plants seeds of uncertainty in another person’s mind. The self-doubt and constant questioning slowly cause the individual to question their reality...

Gaslighting can happen to anyone. Abusers carry out gaslighting behaviours slowly and deliberately so that the person it is happening to does not realise it. The abuser disproves concerns time and again to the point a person does not recognise the reality of what is happening.

One of the things that abusers do to gaslight people is go on the attack and fling insults. These can be destabilising and cause you to doubt yourself. Someone constantly calling you 'stupid' and putting you down, for example, could be part of a campaign to make you doubt yourself.

A healthy dynamic means that people in a relationship are able to name specific instances of what is making them unhappy, and communicate them.

That’s really interesting Arabella.

The point about being able to name specific instances of things and being able to communicate them....isn’t that also what they teach you in school for essay writing skills, interview techniques etc?!

I think Zzyxx must have been absent that day.

Or maybe OP’s relatives are actually trans.

@allmywhat

Sometimes it seems like any time there is a thread on here posted by a woman who's worried about someone in her family, or upset about something in her personal life, it gets targeted with nasty comments.

I would just like to point out that this isn't how normal people react. Be Kind indeed.

Very good point.

@Calmyourselfdown

Or maybe OP’s relatives are actually trans.

How would we know? How will we know? When will know?

It’s worth reading up on the number of people who desist or detransition.

Also, interestingly it seems that dementia/Alzheimer’s can make someone ‘forget’ their trans status. Whereas I don’t think any actual women (or men) forget what sex they are.

@Zyzzx

Sorry I was trying to get across mildy shocked dissapointment in your sentiments. I see now I should have been clearer. This board targets people, and gaslights vulnerable women into hatred.

What are you on about? ! The only gaslighting most of us see certainly isn’t on mumsnet.

@Leafstamp

It's the patriarchy at it's best (worst) isn't it OP?

What was it that JKR said? 'Times Change. Woman-hate is eternal'

Yup - and plenty of woman-hating's outriders on this thread, it would seem.

I once again note the preoccupation with closing down women discussing the subject, while giving men on SM a free pass. Almost as if everyone can tell the difference between the sexes..

@Calmyourselfdown

Or maybe OP’s relatives are actually trans.

What is 'trans'? What does that actually mean? I mean, really?

It's a feeling in your head. How does that translate into needing surgery?

‘Meanwhile, here's a post from Women's Aid, on how to spot gaslighting.’

Women’s Aid, who, also fully support trans women, in every aspect of their work.

Women’s Aid, fully captured and terrified of losing their funding if they don’t comply with the diktats from their overlords.