Defence lawyer tries to use pronouns as an excuse

[DdraigGoch]

“He is content for me to call him Mr Roberts. He has in fact adopted a they or them and adopted a different persona in prison.

“Custody for him will be considerably more difficult than it would be for somebody without his difficulties.”

Fortunately the judge took no notice and sentenced the rioter to 14 years.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/17/kill-bill-rioter-jailed-14-years-despite-claiming-new-pronoun/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1639807829

Paywall.

Thank goodness the judge had some common sense and wasn't about to fall for that rubbish.

But I see they were described as his 'new pronouns'. Freshly minted when prison was on the horizon, no doubt.

"Adopted a different persona in prison" ... 👀

Can’t read much because of the paywall but love the first line of the article. 🤣

I had a look at how other papers were reporting this.The Independent report is almost the same as the Telegraph (mentions that he 'adopted a new persona in prison'). The Guardian and BBC don't mention his choice of pronouns (refer to him as 'he') and the Bristol Post makes him sound like more than one person.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/bristol-avon-and-somerset-police-bristol-crown-court-crown-court-adhd-b1978249.html

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/kill-bill-rioter-who-torched-6366329

To be fair I think lawyer was not really saying that he should be treated less severely because of his pronouns but rather that his ADHD and other mental health issues should be taken into account in the sentencing order.

Interesting that the guardian and the BBC, both known for triumphing this kind of thing, don't use the pronouns the prisoners requests. Almost like they feel it is being done for nefarious reasons.

Almost like they feel it is being done for nefarious reasons.

But don't they claim that never happens? That everyone is who they say they are?

Whatever happened to the case in Ireland where someone was up in court and their lawyer tried to claim that since their client had (since the crimes) become trans, therefore this wasn’t the same person in the dock, so they should just walk free?

I was pretty amazed that a lawyer would even try this with a straight face.

I read it the same way as 334bu. It's not necessarily the pronouns, it's the other issues in play such as the ADHD.

I will posit that judges/lawyers would accept (quite wrongly) they/them-ness as a mitigation in VAWG more than something like this case where it is violence against police. Mysogyny in action.

In this case they seem to understand gender confusion would not be accepted as an excuse, but if it were an attack on women then of course, poor kid, he was confused and has ADHD, and should be put in a women's prison.

Sentenced to male or female estate?

Male estate. The lawyer was arguing that his new pronouns are part and parcel of his ongoing MH issues, I think.

The reporting is crap in both. He is, as far as I remember from earlier reports, one very vulnerable, scared individual who got caught up and carried away during those riots.

A danger to himself and the public, certainly, but not really in control of his faculties.

He needs more help than a prison sentence and I doubt he will get it. Which will leave him both vulnerable and dangerous.

I found it interesting that the lawyer seemed to imply that the very fact that he had changed his persona and pronouns was part of of his underlying mental health issues.

Quote from the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-59705203

"He told an officer inside one of the vans he would "go bang"."
Misgendering! Twice in one sentence (and throughout the article). No mention of the pronouns at all. Just swept under the carpet, totally ignored even though they quote the defence lawyer at some length.

@334bu

I found it interesting that the lawyer seemed to imply that the very fact that he had changed his persona and pronouns was part of of his underlying mental health issues.

Indeed.

And, in this case, a clear example of how TRAs yet again, do more harm than good with their sloganeering etc

So is the lawyer using he/him when referring to the client in court. Even though he's adopted they/them?

@KittenKong

Whatever happened to the case in Ireland where someone was up in court and their lawyer tried to claim that since their client had (since the crimes) become trans, therefore this wasn’t the same person in the dock, so they should just walk free?

I was pretty amazed that a lawyer would even try this with a straight face.

Was it this argument: A TW with GRC's solicitor/barrister argued about sentencing; that the suppressed anger had resolved and being sent to the Womens prison would be harder that for a woman? m.independent.ie/news/transgender-woman-jailed-for-a-year-for-assault-on-family-friend-40145311.html

ROI the Judge swould ask for a GRC. and/or an ID from the police who made the arrest.

But there is also the Freeman of the land / Sovereign Citizen where the defendants don't hire a solicitor can have a legal advisor "Something?? Friend". They argue the whole Joe Blogs is Joe of the Family Blog so paying contract debts and stuff like car insurance don't apply and they do the Marine law stuff.

If you want to read the full article, click on the link then immediately put your phone onto airplane mode, and if you do it quickly enough the website doesn't have time to put up the paywall block.

@DdraigGoch
Thank you for the tip. That my new thing for today sorted 🌻

@WhereYouLeftIt

Quote from the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-59705203

"He told an officer inside one of the vans he would "go bang"."
Misgendering! Twice in one sentence (and throughout the article). No mention of the pronouns at all. Just swept under the carpet, totally ignored even though they quote the defence lawyer at some length.

I read the second "he" as referring to the officer, not the defendant in that the van the officer was in would explode.

Thank you for tip SirSam

Autocorrect?
🙄
@SirSamuelVimes

Thank you for the tip. That my new thing for today sorted🌻

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Male estate. The lawyer was arguing that his new pronouns are part and parcel of his ongoing MH issues, I think.

The reporting is crap in both. He is, as far as I remember from earlier reports, one very vulnerable, scared individual who got caught up and carried away during those riots.

A danger to himself and the public, certainly, but not really in control of his faculties.

He needs more help than a prison sentence and I doubt he will get it. Which will leave him both vulnerable and dangerous.

He has a string of previous convictions.

The jury was told he has 15 convictions for 27 offences including burglary, theft, shoplifting, fraud, possessing cannabis, possessing a knife and possessing amphetamine

Just an aside , but is there something in the water in Bristol?

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/live-bristol-roads-blocked-anti-6371701