Women more likely to suffer death or complications if operated on by a man

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www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10305997/Women-15-likely-die-suffer-complications-surgery-operated-man.html

Are the most senior surgeons - who do the most complicated procedures on the sickest patients ie those most likely to die - mainly men?

And if so, is it also the case that men are more likely to die when operated on by men?

I think that was controlled for in the research.

But if it was down to the character of the surgeon, then there would be no discrepancy in the harm to the patients, based on sex. It's seems it's not about the surgeons' characters, it's about the sex of the people they're operating on.

Obviously, sexism is a characteristic which would result in different results based on sex tho.

Very true although I have never experienced female doctors who had this level of arrogance and kind of think that the person with the character I described the sexism, arrogance and high levels of risk taking go hand in hand. Surgery seems to attract them as well.

So if you have this character you are already a risk to patient's generally but subconsciously treat men better so better outcomes.

I'm not sure it's that simple though (it usually isn't with health outcomes), although I'm sure the fact that it only is male to female maybe it is that simple. Women matter less to them.

One bright spark on the Daily Mail theorised that senior surgeons are more likely to be male, and are more likely to operate on the sickest patients and the reason there is a disparity in survival is because 'men are stronger than women and are more likely to survive and recover after surgery'. But a quick Google shows this to be a just so story: men are more likely than women to die and have complications from every kind of surgery. It's just so funny to me that any other explanation HAS to be right other than the obvious one that male surgeons aren't doing as good a job on female patients.

It doesn't even have to be coming from overt sexism. You just need an unconscious bias that women aren't as valuable, and the surgeon doesn't perform his best work.

I agree with previous posters that this is likely to be related to men's attitudes towards women's pain and concerns.

We know that women are less likely to be taken seriously than men when reporting pain and health issues - more likely to be given anti depressants or told that they are worrying excessively. I wonder if something similar is happening here: when women raise concerns about pain / surgery, are male surgeons more likely than female surgeons to reassure / patronise rather than investigate?

From personal experience, I walked around with my thumb fractured in 2 places for about 6 weeks after my husband (who's an actual doctor) told me I couldn't have broken it because I could still move it a bit and wasn't in too much pain. And I believed him until the swelling went down and my thumb was obviously wonky.

This is pure speculation, but I also wonder whether female surgeons' experience of their own female bodies makes them more aware of individual differences. Medical students often learn practice identifying eg veins and arteries on their own bodies. If women learn from early on in training that their own bodies don't always match the diagram, they may be better at managing both male and female presentations - but men may be less prepared for differences in female anatomy?

It doesn't even have to be coming from overt sexism. You just need an unconscious bias that women aren't as valuable, and the surgeon doesn't perform his best work.

Exactly. I speculate that wherever human cultures have developed a class system in which people from class A are the default human, and thought to be more valuable and people from class B are inferior, you will find that people of class B have poorer health outcomes when treated by a doctor from class A.

We see this with the male surgeons and female patients. We see this with white doctors and black newborn babies.

It doesn't matter what the classes are. If that degree of discrimination is in place, people of class B suffer for it.

And this is why, wherever people are oppressed, the want healthcare staff of their class that they can trust.

Again?

This was in the news years ago.

Iirc female surgeons have better results across the board.

On sexist attitudes.
Female GPs have a disproportionately high rate of suicide.
One theory is. Seeing male docs patient focuses on reason seeing.
Female they talk about background issues. Longer spots. More complex info eg anxiety due to horrible spouse etc.

More work, more complexity to pick through, more emotional things heard.

God! Those comments are depressing. All that showing off their stupidities, their total lack of understanding about statistical analysis.

It's almost like they are entirely willing to look utterly stupid in order to protect the male ego!

And then this

Statistical anomoly with no causation involved. The fools don't understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Erm, sorry mate, but no causation involved is just too dumb, for many reasons!

Why isn't there a laughing emoji for such comments?

God. I 've read most of them now. How stupid.... "It's because there are more men... women are weaker..." FFS! THINK PEOPLE THINK!!!

This seems like it might be something for More or Less to analyse.

Not new info at all.
Knew had seen in news before.
Quick Google , this is 2017
time.com/4975232/women-surgeon-surgery/

Not seen this mentioned again till now IE presume not seen as interesting or important

@CheeseMmmm

Not new info at all. Knew had seen in news before. Quick Google , this is 2017 time.com/4975232/women-surgeon-surgery/

Not seen this mentioned again till now IE presume not seen as interesting or important

Unless I've missed something, that study found that female physicians have better outcomes across the board - I didn't see any analysis of the sex of the patients? It's an interesting study anyway though.

Sorry yes you're right.

Amend my point to- I remember something before similar.
And also imo v important finding.

They both are, doubt will come to anything though.

I wonder if other related findings given these 2...

I can't even get the care level provided to white women so I spend my life just hoping I never need urgent care / surgery like this. I even told my sisters to go private for child birth.

Yes a massive issue.

So many factors and always the same set when it comes to inequality, and when it comes to health care the biases etc around race means lives needlessly lost, treatment given later, etc. Direct harm of illness injury death to individuals. Yes it's appalling.