MUST WATCH "David Baddiel: Social, Media, Anger and Us" BBC2

[RedToothBrush]

This is a hugely important documentary. I would urge everyone on this section to have a good watch.

It covers some highly relevant subjects connected to identity.

Its a really good background to some of the political conflicts we current see and stuff like cancel culture

Its just over 2/3 though but already I think its bloody brilliant.

@Chosenonetosurvivethenight

Fascinating documentary. The whole idea of cancel culture versus consequence culture is really interesting/worrying. There is such a feeling of right and wrong think here. They didn't address how 'wrong think' is measured and who decides (dictates) it. As we know you cam be cancelled for saying a woman has a cervix so what will be the next wrong think and why is that not worrying.

Indeed, one of the things he said was who decides if the "consequence" is proportional?

It seems to me that there's a desire for many people to act as lawmaker, prosecutor, jury and judge.

I'll decide what the rules are, accuse you of breaking them, find you guilty and decide your sentence.

"I'll be judge, I'll be jury said cunning old Fury 'I'll try the whole cause and condemn you to death'"

Lewis Carroll was apt there.

The lesson I was taught at uni was all about who controls the power of the censors. Thats why you should always be wary of censorship.

Like state benefits and free hospital care you never know when you might need your freedom of speech.

This isn't a left / right thing in that sense. There has to be a sensible moderate approach to this which takes this into account.

The accusation becomes the verdict all too often. There are a lot of ruined Iives out there. And a lot of suicides.

@Snoozer11

I think there's generally more vitriol by posters on AIBU than there is on Tattle.

Bollocks is there.

The stuff on Tattle is vile - slagging off the appearance of a mother who lost her baby to cancer, slagging off a Stage 4 cancer patient's eyebrows, saying the most disgusting stuff about various 'influencers', about their personal hygiene, their appearance, some of the content definitely verges on overt racism. I couldn't believe what I was reading to be honest.

And if anyone calls it our, then they get bollocked for 'tone policing and attempting to moderate' and get threatened with a ban!

The people claim that they are 'holding influencers to account' but that's crap, the stuff they say on there goes way beyond.

It is nothing like Mumsnet.

@Omicrone I haven't seen people mocking cancer patients or bereaved mothers.

Some of the influencer comments are on the nose but if you've chosen to flaunt your wealth and all aspects of your lifestyle and private life, I think you're open for criticism.

Its mostly just comments about Phillip Schofield and Meghan Markle.

I don’t know, I think Tattle is like people in real life. Some having objective, intelligent discussions and some nasty stuff. What seems to happen less there, compared to here is the personal sniping and the contrariness.

I think the objectiveness is missing from the DB programme. It’s an important subject for sure. I’d really like to see an in depth series on this though. All sides taken into account. It’s interesting to see people who had a large platform that they perhaps didn’t always behave well on, then railing against the ‘little’ people finally having a way to reply. Albeit with much less amplification. FWIW I could not be in the public eye or an influencer. They’re selling themselves as a brand in the ‘trusted friend’ model but then struggling with the feedback.

Also - got to smile when it’s a comedian that doesn’t like the feedback. Of all the people..

@RedToothBrush

It is interesting saying about the 'quiet people' who don't speak on social media.

It has always been important for me on MN to speak what I feel and never be afraid of being different to others. A lesson I learn in the days of the early internet forums was people always agree with you, but are often afraid to voice it, but will quietly message you thanking you. And you should always look for and listen to the quiet voices as well as the shouty ones.

When I came to MN I carried that forward. I find it fascinating that was the note he ended the programme on. Its soo soo true and invaluable.

I never ever tweet. I read and digest instead.

It has always been important for me on MN to speak what I feel and never be afraid of being different to others. A lesson I learn in the days of the early internet forums was people always agree with you, but are often afraid to voice it, but will quietly message you thanking you. And you should always look for and listen to the quiet voices as well as the shouty ones.

Absolutely this.

The blame the parents thing is vv common.

Also ignores so many things.

It's a comforting and easy reaction.

It's the go to around online porn. So that's a consideration.

It ignores-

Parents who don't get what can be online and how children can be exposed to all sorts of stuff.

Parents who don't understand how to do apps and set them up etc.

Children seeing it elsewhere.

Children being online so standard it makes them odd one out, can't join in with chat with friends etc.

The massive interest in anything more 'grown up' which has always been s thing. And especially if parents ban. Just increases interest.

That parental controls etc bypassed easily if child wants to and gets friend to Google/ asks around.

That parental control is shit, way more than people realise.

That banning is difficult when loads of schoolwork on line and COVID, all lessons.

That looking over shoulder all time on net is not practical at all.

Etc etc.

It's like women and girls being given a mile long list to 'protect themselves' from men with bad intentions.

Ignores the root of the problem.
Puts huge onus on potential victims.
Anything happens it's fault of parents (generally meaning mum) or child. Victim blaming.

Solution? When it comes to internet. No complete one. Very difficult problem. Blame family etc? Much easier.

Understand why happens but means can relax. That's where the blame lies. Comforting.

If my family do X then all will be fine.
Those who don't only themselves to blame.
Negligent.

Sali Hughes from the Guardian talking about a site called Tattle Life (never heard of it but it sounds totally poisonous) - very articulate on being actively, repeatedly targeted online. Poor woman

The Sali Hughes who threatened to doxx ex members of her FB group and had a conversation on Twitter with India Knight about sending India's partner, the convicted sex offender Eric Joyce, round to their houses?

The Sali Hughes who repeatedly bullied Dawn O Porter on Twitter?

That Sali Hughes? Yes, poor woman

@PaulRuddsWife

Sali Hughes from the Guardian talking about a site called Tattle Life (never heard of it but it sounds totally poisonous) - very articulate on being actively, repeatedly targeted online. Poor woman

The Sali Hughes who threatened to doxx ex members of her FB group and had a conversation on Twitter with India Knight about sending India's partner, the convicted sex offender Eric Joyce, round to their houses?

The Sali Hughes who repeatedly bullied Dawn O Porter on Twitter?

That Sali Hughes? Yes, poor woman

As I said above, I had no idea about what SH has done prior to being interviewed by DB. Zero.

The only thing I know about her is that she writes for the Guarniad and I have a book by her. I follow the advice she gives in her book not to keep your best perfume for special occasions but to wear it every day.

But I don’t read gossip sites so have no idea about XYZ.

@FrancescaContini well, that's kind of the point. Hughes is a 'blue tick' and has a massive platform, so it's easy to get her side of the story out there. But when when a small group of women want some right to reply and take it to a forum that Hughes doesn't even have to read if she doesn't want to, they're 'trolls' and they're 'harassing' her. It's bullshit.

And let's not get started on David Baddiel. He's never apologised to a black footballer for mocking him and doing black face and who he bullied week after week on his football show (and that's just for starters. Mic Wright on Twitter has found some very interesting old interviews Baddiel did about bullying a classmate whose mum had died when he was at school).

All I've taken from this is that it's fine to be a troll if you're famous, but the little people need to shut their gobs, even if the criticism is valid.

[quote PaulRuddsWife]@FrancescaContini well, that's kind of the point. Hughes is a 'blue tick' and has a massive platform, so it's easy to get her side of the story out there. But when when a small group of women want some right to reply and take it to a forum that Hughes doesn't even have to read if she doesn't want to, they're 'trolls' and they're 'harassing' her. It's bullshit.

And let's not get started on David Baddiel. He's never apologised to a black footballer for mocking him and doing black face and who he bullied week after week on his football show (and that's just for starters. Mic Wright on Twitter has found some very interesting old interviews Baddiel did about bullying a classmate whose mum had died when he was at school).

All I've taken from this is that it's fine to be a troll if you're famous, but the little people need to shut their gobs, even if the criticism is valid. [/quote]
Sorry, I don’t even understand what you mean by “she’s a blue tick”.

And I didn’t know this about DB, either.

Watching this now and while the main point is a valid one it is slightly undermined by the fact that the presenter and some of the participants, e.g. Sali Hughes, are people whose own conduct online has been less than whiter than white and it would have been a more powerful programme if they had acknowledged the effect SM has had on their own behaviour towards other rather than speaking purely from the standpoint of being ‘victims’ of other people.

@Snoozer11

I think there's generally more vitriol by posters on AIBU than there is on Tattle.

I very much find this to be the case, and it amuses me when Tattle users are demonised on here.

Sorry, I don’t even understand what you mean by “she’s a blue tick”.

On twitter you get a 'blue tick' next to your name if you have a large number of followers, are notable in some way, and have submitted ID to to prove that you are who you say you are or represent the company in question.

It was a bit of status symbol for a while.

[quote PaulRuddsWife]@FrancescaContini well, that's kind of the point. Hughes is a 'blue tick' and has a massive platform, so it's easy to get her side of the story out there. But when when a small group of women want some right to reply and take it to a forum that Hughes doesn't even have to read if she doesn't want to, they're 'trolls' and they're 'harassing' her. It's bullshit.

And let's not get started on David Baddiel. He's never apologised to a black footballer for mocking him and doing black face and who he bullied week after week on his football show (and that's just for starters. Mic Wright on Twitter has found some very interesting old interviews Baddiel did about bullying a classmate whose mum had died when he was at school).

All I've taken from this is that it's fine to be a troll if you're famous, but the little people need to shut their gobs, even if the criticism is valid. [/quote]
You've not watched the programme have you?

You've not watched the programme have you?

I haven't, tbh. I started it, but I decided my blood pressure couldn't take it. Plus I don't think I could take Sali Hughes doing her victim act yet again and whinging about 'dragging sites' when a) she's a prolific Tweeter (I think Twitter is much, much worse than Tattle) and b) she's never acknowledged what her own bullying and harassment.

My points still stand. I think there's definitely a conversation to be had about social media etc but David Baddiel was absolutely the wrong person to make this documentary.

So if someone has behaved badly does that mean that it’s acceptable to behave in a similar way towards them?

@WhatScratch

So if someone has behaved badly does that mean that it’s acceptable to behave in a similar way towards them?

Absolutely not. And I do think people can be genuinely sorry for their actions. I just don't think either Baddiel or Hughes are.

Nothing of what I've read on Tattle about Sali Hughes could constitute genuine bullying or harassment. From I what I've seen, it's mostly disgruntled ex fans who are pissed off with her not declaring ads or how much botox she's had and none of the commenters on there deserve the threat of Eric Joyce turning up at their house. Celebs like Sali Hughes are just furious that they can't control the narrative anymore.

And btw, here's the interview Baddiel did about his time as a school bully.

’Nothing of what I've read on Tattle about Sali Hughes could constitute genuine bullying or harassment.’

Really? I’ve just had a quick Google and it’s pretty much the definition of bullying. Thread after thread dedicated to picking apart every video she posts with special attention paid to her physical appearance.

I very much find this to be the case, and it amuses me when Tattle users are demonised on here.

Would AIBU feature comments such as 'that mole on her top lip gives me the rage' about a woman whose baby died of cancer? Or 'I'm dying to sort out her eyebrows' about a Stage 4 cancer patient? Or 'she looks like she stinks of BO' about any Instagram infiuencer? It would never be allowed.

I agree that Tattle does call out some of the ridiculous tactics used by Instagrammers, but a lot of it goes beyond that and is really disgusting. And none of it gets deleted. Also, they are fucking obsessed on that website, some of the posters literally seem to spend all their time ripping apart every single post and story of whichever thread they are on. There are literally tens of thousands of posts devoted to nothing but slagging off particular individuals, and nothing seems to be off limits, even when it's completely irrelevant to 'holding them to account'.

’ Also, they are fucking obsessed on that website, some of the posters literally seem to spend all their time ripping apart every single post and story of whichever thread they are on. There are literally tens of thousands of posts devoted to nothing but slagging off particular individuals, and nothing seems to be off limits, even when it's completely irrelevant to 'holding them to account'.’

They’re on the 42nd serial thread of slagging off Sali Hughes. That’s over 41,000 posts about her.

@Omicrone

I very much find this to be the case, and it amuses me when Tattle users are demonised on here.

Would AIBU feature comments such as 'that mole on her top lip gives me the rage' about a woman whose baby died of cancer? Or 'I'm dying to sort out her eyebrows' about a Stage 4 cancer patient? Or 'she looks like she stinks of BO' about any Instagram infiuencer? It would never be allowed.

I agree that Tattle does call out some of the ridiculous tactics used by Instagrammers, but a lot of it goes beyond that and is really disgusting. And none of it gets deleted. Also, they are fucking obsessed on that website, some of the posters literally seem to spend all their time ripping apart every single post and story of whichever thread they are on. There are literally tens of thousands of posts devoted to nothing but slagging off particular individuals, and nothing seems to be off limits, even when it's completely irrelevant to 'holding them to account'.

It sounds absolutely hideous. Very nasty.