DSD statistics - where did 1 in 100 come from?

[VorpalSword]

My daughter's school have a company come into provide some sex education. Most of what they did last time was good - discussion about period products, plasticine vulvas, good discussion on consent.

But

They did say that was 1 in 100 has DSD (though I think they used intersex) which is as common as red hair. So rather than use male and female they used vigina haver and penis haver.

I think the real statistic is 1 in 5000-6000 but where does this 1 in 100 come from. I found it quoted on Amnesty and Scientific America but just as some researchers think. Nothing to back it up.

Anyone know the correct statistics, preferably with sources so I can back it up to the school?

This myth really pisses me off as I have people with DSDs close to me. How that statistic arose is because they included people who most wouldn’t count as ‘intersex’. Useful information below:

www.realityslaststand.com/p/intersex-is-not-as-common-as-red

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/

And when you challenge it, you can add that people with DSDs find this myth bloody offensive and trivialising 😡

BBC more or less have an episode on “intersex” if you want a “clean” source. It is just their kind of thing.
There are parts of the world where differences of sex development are common and red hair rare, eg a part of the Dominican Republic has 2% of males with a DSD (a genetic DSD that only impacts males who become obviously male at puberty is widespread)

Some categories count things like PCOS and hypospadias as DSDs which pushes the numbers up. This suits some political agendas I.e. trying to make out that sex is fluid

It’s a silly line in Wales red hair is very common around one in 10 people so easily 3-5 kids per class I doubt that applies to DSD

ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/
This discusses it (but the font made it pretty hard for me to read)

It's because they include stuff that isn't DSD at all! My son has hypospadias, his penis looks different, his sex is not ambiguous

I'm sure genuinely intersex people are a bit fed up with being dragged into the gender arguments TBH.

What is DSD?

@Dinosaurwoman

What is DSD?

Difference (or Disorder) of Sexual Development.

Formerly known as hermaphrodite or—more recently—Intersex.

Depends on what you include. If you include X, XXY , XYY individuals the figures will be higher. Many people wouldn't classify these conditons as a DSD as these chromosome differences don't impact on the usual "rule" that presence of a Y makes you male and absence of a Y = female. Most people wouldn't include Hypospadias in the realms of DSD either as they are males, with XY chromosomes.

Figures for those with ambiguous genitalia or physical appearance that is at odds with their chromosome make up ( I.e those who are not clearly male or female at birth, or those who have both ovaries and testes, or XX males or XY females are far far rarer. See Garcia-Acero et al (2019) Current Urology, 13 p. 169-178. For different figures based on what you include.

So rather than use male and female they used vigina haver and penis haver.

I would ask the school why they think it is appropriate to refer to children/people by their genitals, especially as children with a DSD may already feel like they don't belong, to then have a teacher imply they aren't male/female, that they are penis/vagina havers.

This shit needs to stop! Misinformation thought of as fact. Who are these people who take these courses where they learn this 'religion'?
Don't people have common sense?

I heard an expert speak on this some time back. His main points were:

1. We don't know the real numbers because most DSDs don't require treatment. They are somewhere between 0.05% and 1.5%. his personal estimate was about 0.5 - 1%.

1. The vast majority of these are hormone issues. For example, a man with moderately high testosterone might be aggressive, have acne and a lot of body hair but it's unlikely they will ever be diagnosed.

1. Even amongst congenital and chromosomal differences the more common ones are less serious. So, for example, something like the hole from the urethra being in the wrong place will be hundreds of times more likely than anything that might reasonably be termed intersex.

Difference (or Disorder) of Sexual Development. Formerly known as hermaphrodite or—more recently—Intersex.

Those things aren't the same though.

There are no hermaphroditic mammals and the condition which might be called that in humans is vanishingly rare.

Intersex is a vague term which (if meaning those with some male and female sexual characteristics) really applies to (at most) 0.02% of the population, depending where you draw that line.

A DSD is any variation from normal sexual development.

"DSD Families" has produced an excellent free guide for schools:

Differences of Sex Development:
A guide to DSD/intersex inclusion for schools
July 2021

www.dsdfamilies.org/application/files/9116/3519/2768/July_2021_schools.pdf

About this guide

This guide is about school’s responsibilities to pupils with Variations of Sex Development and the broader issue of “intersex” inclusion in the school curriculum.

This is not a guide about LGBT+ issues, as Differences of Sex Development/Intersex Variations are not a form of sexuality or gender identity; they are about physical differences in a person’s reproductive development and sometimes genital development.

Who is this guide for?

This guide is for:
• Teachers, school leadership teams and governors in both state and private schools
• Parents and young people with Variations of Sex Development who would like to understand their rights
• Local education authorities producing their own guidance
• Anyone who has an interest in promoting the wellbeing and academic attainment of children and young people with variations of sex development

Who are we?

Every year in the UK, approximately 150 children are diagnosed with differences of sex development (DSD) – and that means there are approximately 2,300 children living with DSD conditions in the UK.

dsdfamilies is the only UK charity that specifically supports all children and young people, and their families, living with DSDs in the UK.

We work together with families and their children, teens and young adults, and healthcare providers in the UK, to raise happy, confident, and well-informed young people who can speak up for the support they need.

Throughout this guide you will also see quotes from our Youth Ambassadors, a focus group of young people living with DSD in the UK, who help to advise dsdfamilies on the focus and direction of our work

www.dsdfamilies.org/

=======

A good article, which touches on, among much else:

• why "intersex" is a political identity
• why previous medical terms that included "hermaphrodite" were unhelpful
• why "intersex" and "hermaphrodite" are fetishised and appropriated by some trans individuals and have been dragooned into service by trans advocacy organisations
• DSD as an "umbrella term" for a variety of wildly different medical diagnoses
• why many (most?) people with a life-changing DSD diagnosis would prefer to be recognised as having a specific medical condition that affects their health and life prospects in very specific ways, and that these are different to how people with other DSDs are affected

The Invention of Intersex

differently-normal.com/2021/10/25/the-invention-of-intersex/

Clare (forgotten her last name, friends with Miranda Yardley) made a really hard hitting video on her fb last year pointing out how exceptionally difficult it is for a young person who has a real DSD to be in lessons where their, in some cases disabilities, as turners syndrome is a DSD, are discussed in relation to sexuality and gender.

It's such a sensitive and private thing.

It's disgusting that this sort of thing is being used in this way.

Wow - this reminds me of when I studied psychology and we watched a video of people stating utter claptrap which they genuinely believed. One was an elderly lady adamant that if a white woman have ever slept with a black man, then any children she may have could be black. Apparently this was a fairly common
misconception (this was about 20 years ago, the video looked like it was filed in the 80s).

I can’t remember the other ‘facts’ but it was Mike watching a caveman try to explain the seasons.

[quote ClareCAIS]Do you have the details of the company as I can contact them and correct their information

I also wrote this, which has a breakdown of the statistics differently-normal.com/2021/10/25/the-invention-of-intersex/[/quote]
Oh Clare! I didn't know you were on Mumsnet or I would have tagged you in my previous post!

Red hair is a genetic trait more prominent in some populations than others. You don't see any at all in some countries, while others have 10-20%. This is not the same as a congenital condition (DSD's are about 40 different conditions) which occurs at fairly predictable rates but rarely some populations have a higher rate. Even if a person has one of these conditions, they are still male or female and many of the condition can only occur in one sex or another. It really is rather rare to have sex ambiguous or unclear at birth, one estimate I've seen is 0.18% or less.

They inflate the figures by adding in conditions which don't apply like hypospadias in boys (malpositioned urethra) or adult onset CAH and also ones where it is clear what sex the person is. You add in all of those you can reach roughly that proportion.

On top of that, all this doesn't help people with those conditions. They just get trotted out, added to the flag with apparently exactly nothing done to support these children and families or medical professionals caring for them. They often have to deal with some very real health problems related to their condition.