Life expectancy of medically transitioned young people

[porridgecake]

I am sure I read on here that children and young people who start puberty blockers and then continue on cross sex hormones long term have a greatly reduced life expectancy.
Does anyone have any information on this?

@CheeseMmmm

I find unnecessary surgery/medical procedures on completely healthy bodies deeply personally upsetting too, and on children the most.

In my ideal world no one would be surgically altered to fit an image, whether that is any combination of man/woman trying to fit a masculine/feminine ideal.

The rot is there in all aesthetic surgery/medicine for whatever reason.

I wonder as medicine has made such great strides and disease and mortality have become more distant concepts to people, especially in youth, whether we have just disconnected entirely from the notion of our bodies as fabulous instruments not ornaments and lost the true respect we should have when they work as they should.

Someone really needs to write an accessible book looking at the medical impact of transition. Not even the psychological impact. Just listing the various studies, including all the anecdotal evidence all over the Internet where trans people share stories about health problems their doctors didn't even know (or care) existed.
The surgery stories, like the chap with the facial feminisation surgery and a load of pins in what is left of his chin, the horrendous complications with neovagina and neophallus surgery, the poor results from the comparatively much simpler "chest masculinisation" mastectomies, the uterine cramping, painful clitoral growth (or loss of sensation as the tissue grows and the nerves do not), the incontinence due to scar tissue and vaginal atrophy, and of course the enormous list of issues related to gnrh analogues (reduced iq, massive decrease in bone density, spines and jaws crumbling, etc)

It ideally needs to be as dispassionate and as factual as possible.

It could reasonably be predicted that spending your adult life waging a war against your own chromosomes is unlikely to be beneficial to health and long term survival. As others have said, it's too early for meaningful statistical evidence to be available even if information is being collated. I'm too old now to expect to be around to see what happens when young transitioners reach middle age and beyond and so, I suspect, are most of the practitioners who are currently prescribing the puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones and performing the surgeries.

Anecdotally I know of one young person who has liver problems. It has been suggested their issue may be related to artificial testosterone. This is a 21 yr old

Anecdotally I knew one slightly older person who developed liver cancer after four years on T. Maybe related maybe not. But the first thing the oncologist advised even before a firm diagnosis had been reached was to discontinue T.
I doubt these things are reported as obviously there is no proof of causation.

Adults can and do choose to do all sorts of harmful things. Including some who have masses of surgery to look like.. aliens, a reptile etc.

The MH issues of this esp private seem to be of often ignored. That needs to change. But in the end. Adults.

Children is a totally no unless medically indicated.

Nobody has any way of knowing yet about long term life expectancy. The very idea that those drugs are given to children is totally abhorrent.

Adults can and do choose to do all sorts of harmful things.

Yes, but there's a difference between making an informed choice and being misled. Tobacco companies in the 1950s advertised their cigarettes as being the favourite brand for doctors, or being good for your throat, for example, versus now where you get a grisly pic of diseased lungs or rotten teeth on your pack.

If an adult knows the risks and is informed of the likely health issues (and preferably pays for it themselves but that's another argument) then I'm not going to stop them, any more than I would stop someone from tattooing their entire face. But the evidence suggests these people are being lied to and manipulated and sold false hope and that pisses me off.

Yes the messaging needs to change. Thing is it's coming from and being propagated by trans people and orgs. Orgs that are behaving totally irresponsibly.

The v high priority campaign, push from all directions in trans advocacy / charities, resulting in a massive support from trans individuals and allies. That 'trans healthcare' (IE including surgeries) should be free, delivered on demand including to children. With the justification that it's essential and lifesaving. Obviously sends a very strong message and that it's a massive, vital, urgent need.

And right to trans healthcare is another thing repeated constantly all over the place.

More discussion on this subject

extract

Dec 1, 2021
Press Release

Regarding our letter to the editor of JCEM expressing our concerns about the Madsen et al. study “Erythrocytosis in a Large Cohort of Trans Men Using Testosterone: A Long-Term Follow-Up Study on Prevalence, Determinants, and Exposure Years”.

Summary

High testosterone levels in trans males (females who identify as trans) lead to high hemoglobin and hematocrit levels (red blood cell counts). Having too many red blood cells is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease and death. In our opinion,the study by Madsen et al. in JCEM hides the true numbers of trans males at risk for high red blood cell counts and therefore cardiovascular harms.

We believe that the female reference range for hemoglobin and hematocrit must be used for trans males in order to help them to understand their true risks. Furthermore because of these risks and also lack of maturity, adolescent females with gender incongruence should never be prescribed testosterone.

Continues here

gendersanity.org/

This is a study of harm done by the use of anabolic steroids--and this is just the negative effects on males. On females, the use of anabolic steroids like testosterone would be worse!

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2646607/#R54
And according to this pro-trans document,
"Hormones: A Guide for FTMs"

d31kydh6n6r5j5.cloudfront.net/uploads/sites/161/2019/08/hormones_FTM.pdf

"What are the Possible Side Effects/Risks
of Testosterone

"The long-term safety of testosterone is not fully understood. Most of the
studies on hormone therapy involve non-trans men taking testosterone at
different doses than FTMs usually use, and FTM bodies are not exactly
the same as non-trans men’s bodies. There may be long-term risks that

are not yet known.

1. Testosterone can increase the risk of heart disease,

stroke, and diabetes. Testosterone tends to:

• decrease good cholesterol (HDL) and increase bad cholesterol (LDL)

• increase fat deposits around internal organs and in the upper
abdomen
• increase blood pressure
• decrease the body’s sensitivity to insulin
• cause weight gain
These changes may increase the risk of heart disease (including heart
attack), stroke, and diabetes. "

This has been such an interesting thread. Thanks to everyone for your contributions. There really needs to be more attention brought to all the potential harms and surely there must be a medical or research organisation responsible for looking at this.

We believe that the female reference range for hemoglobin and hematocrit must be used for trans males in order to help them to understand their true risks. Furthermore because of these risks and also lack of maturity, adolescent females with gender incongruence should never be prescribed testosterone.

I'm not disputing the study or the effects of testosterone but something I hadn't previously thought about is that I always understood the female reference range for haemoglibin was lower than for men because women lose iron every month due to their periods. For young women whose periods have stopped won't there be an effect related to that?

( I also hadn't thought about it before but the female reference range doesn't change for post menopausal women. Maybe I'm answering my own question here? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can explain?)

Worth looking at some of the stuff Rene Jax has produced.

An early transitioner in the days when she would have been called a transexual, breaking new ground by being employed by the San Francisco police etc. She could have been a poster girl for the gender movement, except.....

she has now been forced to stop hormones because of health issues and in 2018 wrote a book "Don't get on the plane - why a sex change will ruin your life."

women lose iron every month due to their periods

But not much unless they have heavy menstrual periods. I loathe the reference below but it's the readily accessible and discusses quantities (it does use 'person').

Women tend to be anaemic for a range of reasons, not least is our food choices. If anything, men tend to have too much iron if they don't donate blood regularly.

www.menstrual-matters.com/bloodloss/

Bodyform's is reasonable and does use 'women':

www.bodyform.co.uk/discover/your-first-period/how-much-blood-do-you-lose-on-your-period/

All of the above said, I strongly agree that as far as clinical investigations and assessments are concerned, for now, reference ranges associated with sex are necessary.

That video is extraordinary. That should be compulsory viewing for gender ideologists.
Are those suicide statistics really correct?

Thanks @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
And of course I absolutely agree with you on this. I just hadn't really thought about it before.

I strongly agree that as far as clinical investigations and assessments are concerned, for now, reference ranges associated with sex are necessary.

Blocking puberty is a very bad idea and I’m sure will lead to all sorts of problems later.

What we know:

The human body generally responds badly to hormone levels being way out of normal range, as is deliberately done in trans healthcare.

Surgeries are hugely problematic, more so if done on prepubertal tissue, with deaths occurring.

The large Dutch cohort, transitioned through the late 90s and early 2000s will only be at the very oldest in their 40s maybe?

I don’t know if the Dutch clinic have robust follow up of these children as adults. I do know other clinics have no idea about where their former patients are now.

It seems every month there is a new paper published: higher rates of breast cancer in males on oestrogen, increased risk of stroke and heart attack, increased risk of liver problems, ongoing mental health issues, and so on, and so on. They are usually reported on here with a thread.

It will take another 30 years at least before we see the full impacts of what has been done to children in terms of their long term health.

So in terms of life expectancy, my inference is that it we will discover it is reduced, and that it is iatrogenic i.e. caused by doctors and the apparent “healthcare” they provide. I’d like to hear any arguments from proponents of the medical affirmative pathway as to how it can not affect long term health and ultimately life expectancy.

wrt hormones - there is a lot of data from the east german women sports squad. and it's not good.

wrt to medication, the pharmaceutical companies are obliged to collect reports on side effects and data on off-label use (use of medication that's different to the authorised use). see also the yellow card scheme.
I suspect that many dr don't always report as obliged for many different reasons and patients might not always be aware that they can report themselves.

It's not the same of course, but those kids doped with testosterone and other steroids have experienced myriad health problems. That should be a warning, surely? Link.

I have just watched the video on that link and I am even more shocked. This information needs to be more widely publicised. It is an absolute horror story.

Purgatory--That letter about the red blood cells in women who take testosterone and how it raises the risk of heart attacks is really sobering. I woke up thinking about it.

Lupron (Hormone blockers) causes osteoparosis, including pediatric osteoparosis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26360682/
an 21.
An Examination of the Effects of Leuprolide Acetate Used in the Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty on Bone Mineral Density and 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D

UPDATE: Lupron Can Result in Serious Injury or Death
www.newlandlaw.com › lupron-can-result-in-ser...

what you don't know can harm you - Lupron Victims Hub
www.lupronvictimshub.com › lawsui

More complaints about Lupron side effects - KTNV
www.ktnv.com › news › investigations › more-w...

Georgia woman says controversial drug led to series of health ...
www.wsbtv.com › news › local › georgia-woma...

Women Fear Drug They Used To Halt Puberty Led To Health
khn.org › news › women-fear-drug-they-used-to...

le.utah.gov/interim/2020/pdf/00002340.pdf

From a bill seeking to study further the dangers of Lupron: HB 449 and the
Dangers of LupronREP DA

"Statement from Dr. Redwine• Dr. Redwine is a (now retired) endocrinologist and OB-GYN who specialized in endometriosis and who practiced for over 30 years
• Excerpt from his statement:
“During my career, I had the opportunity to speak with and operate on over 600 patients who had been treated with Lupron for pain due to endometriosis. Clearly the medicine does nothing to the disease, but more worrisome are the long-term effects of Lupron on ovarian function that patients would mention to me. As a medical expert in a product liability lawsuit against Lupron (Klein v Abbott), I had the opportunity to review thousands of pages of in-house medical studies consisting of tabulations of raw data and their evaluation in reports which eventually became the basis for FDA approval of Lupron for endometriosis in 1990 and also the basis for medical journal article publications. One of the earliest in-house studies found that by one year after stopping Lupron, 62% of patients had not regained baseline estrogen production. This fact was not presented in the medical journal publication of the time, so practitioners are not aware of this evidence of long-term ovarian dysfunction. Indeed, the product label and a medical publication of the time imply that normal ovarian function is restored in most by 2 months after stopping Lupron. Proper informed consent for Lupron therapy is impossible to obtain because the occurrence of ovarian dysfunction long after stopping Lupron remains hidden behind a court protective order. Beyond the hidden data on ovarian function, I found in my review of the in-house studies that there were many examples of protocol violations and other means of making the results more favorable to Lupron than the data would allow. But deception is simply how drug companies operate. The future is like a black box. When any medicine is approved and prescribed, a great social experiment begins which will eventually define efficacy and safety in the light of day, not within the protective walls of a drug company. Lupron is a powerful drug with unanticipated long-term adverse consequences in a sizable fraction of patients. Its off-label use for gender dysphoria is controversial and seems questionable in my opinion.”

Not specific to Life Expectancy but this Research Series is worth keeping an eye on for updates:

Amsterdam Cohort of Genderdysphoria (ACOG)

Goal: The ‘Amsterdam Cohort of Genderdysphoria’ (ACOG) aims to better understand the long-term effects and side effects of hormonal treatment and thereby to improve quality of care for individuals with gender dysphoria.

www.researchgate.net/project/Amsterdam-Cohort-of-Genderdysphoria-ACOG

There are two tabs on that page:

• Project Log

• References

There are 14 References to date. The first three listed:

Trends in suicide death risk in transgender people: results from the Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria study (1972‐2017)
www.researchgate.net/publication/339355801_Trends_in_suicide_death_risk_in_transgender_people_results_from_the_Amsterdam_Cohort_of_Gender_Dysphoria_study_1972-2017

Mortality trends over five decades in adult transgender people receiving hormone treatment: a report from the Amsterdam cohort of gender dysphoria
www.researchgate.net/publication/354420473_Mortality_trends_over_five_decades_in_adult_transgender_people_receiving_hormone_treatment_a_report_from_the_Amsterdam_cohort_of_gender_dysphoria

Incidence of testicular cancer in trans women using gender‐affirming hormonal treatment: a nationwide cohort study
www.researchgate.net/publication/353910998_Incidence_of_testicular_cancer_in_trans_women_using_gender-affirming_hormonal_treatment_a_nationwide_cohort_study