Mary Harrington's Thread: how old at your first sexual approach by a man?

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

The thread is a hard read. However, it's eye-opening to see how shocking it is to men. Is this one of the reasons why they don't understand why women are on default alert for an unwanted approach and why we need our single-sex spaces?

Quick Q to women who follow me: if you’re willing to share, how old were you the first time you remember being approached in a sexual way by adult men? (I was probably 13)

twitter.com/moveincircles/status/1465634247729987588

I was 10 or 11. My dad had taken me, my little brother and my best friend to the local swimming pool. He had to supervise my brother in the toddler pool, so my friend and I swam around together (we were very strong swimmers so didn't need close supervision).

A strange man came up to us, told us our swimming strokes weren't very good, and then with the pretext of "adjusting" our strokes, groped us both in the crotch. We got away very quickly, but somehow through some unspoken agreement we didn't call for help, and neither did we go to get my dad from the other pool.

I don't know why we didn't tell. Confusion? Shame?

This such a deeply sad thread:
Sad that these instances are not rare they are commonplace
Sad that these men exist and got / get away with it
Sad the girls blamed themselves or felt ashamed
So sad that these events have affected these poor girls now women for their entire lives
Sad that the parents were either naïve or negligent or worse laughed it off.

Yes there is better education today for boys on what is acceptable behaviour to women but I fear that the boys that listen would not of behaved that way anyway and those boys who do behave that way don't listen to the education. So we are no better off than we were 40 years ago.

Education has nothing to do with it. These men and boys know what they're doing. They also know they're more likely to be believed than the victim is. They also know confusion and fear often paralyse the victim.
Men don't go around touching up other men do they? If you've ever been brushed up against or hugged inappropriately or had that hand on the small of your back "just so I can get by" and questioned if it was inappropriate, ask yourself if he'd do it to another man. He wouldn't. He'd made space for another man.

The other sad thing is that every time a compilation of these sadly common stories is put together, men get off on it. So although it's really important to share these experiences, please keep your personal details out of it. Men pretend to be women on online rape support forums and then stalk and harass women who have shared their most harrowing stories.

And +100 to the notion that "nice guys" benefit more from the existence of "bad guys" than they would from helping to confront them.

11 or 12 when I was molested by a family friend.

More unwanted attention from men (comments, staring etc) starting from the age of about 13.

12. I enjoyed the attention because it felt harmless and I felt valued. I never liked being a child and being treated like one, so it was a big step up in perceived status. Being objectified was better than being told that my thoughts and feelings didn't matter because of my age. I felt powerful. This is part of the reason why I understand the 'empowerment' libfem narrative - and also why I critique it.

I used to tell them (adult men!) that I was 15 because I thought they might feel bad if they knew they'd been attracted to a 12-year-old. 15 was safe to say because they'd still (mostly!) back off, but I got the positive attention I wanted.

Looking back many years later I just feel sad about it all. It was sad that I didn't have anything else to bolster my self-worth, and obviously I see now that they must have known I was very young despite the makeup.

@FlyingOink

Education has nothing to do with it. These men and boys know what they're doing. They also know they're more likely to be believed than the victim is. They also know confusion and fear often paralyse the victim. Men don't go around touching up other men do they? If you've ever been brushed up against or hugged inappropriately or had that hand on the small of your back "just so I can get by" and questioned if it was inappropriate, ask yourself if he'd do it to another man. He wouldn't. He'd made space for another man.

The other sad thing is that every time a compilation of these sadly common stories is put together, men get off on it. So although it's really important to share these experiences, please keep your personal details out of it. Men pretend to be women on online rape support forums and then stalk and harass women who have shared their most harrowing stories.

And +100 to the notion that "nice guys" benefit more from the existence of "bad guys" than they would from helping to confront them.

It isn't lack of knowledge or understanding. These males don't do this in front of witnesses who they know would stop them. They don't do it to their bosses or cops. They are choosing the behaviour and doing it because they want to and feel entitled to.

And because we live in a society where male entitlement to use female biology is sympathised with as 'needs', where the consequences for grabbing a bit of female biology in passing is usually consequence free, and where even if you end up in court the female will be put through living hell, will be blamed for what she wore that made your lack of self control understandable, blamed for where she put herself knowing a male might be more easily able to take advantage of her body being there and available, and the jury will be worried sick about 'destroying' your life and prospects because such a shame for a male, and it was only a woman and an understandable urge.

That there's all these posts here from females who will never, never forget those moment and how horrible they were, and many of which will have been life changing even in small ways, just shows. We live in a world that believes females are not as human as males, and are largely support animals. Who shouldn't really be depriving males of access to needed biology.

I was about 9. My brothers friend, 5 years older than me, pinned me to the sofa and felt me up whilst my brother sat there and said nothing. Next time I remember was about 12/13 when I man came behind me, put his hand under my crotch and then laughed. After that I got hassled regularly right up until my mid 30’s.

Now I’m 52 and my DH is going to be my last relationship with a man.

I was 12 on the bus back from school and a man sat next to me so I was pinned against the window and started stroking my leg. I was too scared to say anything or try to move. Luckily a woman spotted and told him to get away from me and he was then heckled off the bus to the shouts of "perve" from teenage boys. I'm so thankful to that woman - it made me feel really protected and I try to be very aware of my surroundings on public transport now in case I can do something similar for someone else in future.

I was 8, someone came and sat next to me on a bench and took out his penis and started playing with it.

This is a horrible thread.

12-13. Maybe a bit younger.

This is a horrible thread

it absolutely is. it also makes me feel a tiny bit less alone / ashamed.

Age 6 an uncle, I can recall every detail, including a comment he made to my mother, which as young as I was, I understood that he was silencing me. He looked me in the eye as he spoke.

Nothing happened to me and I grew up to be a very naive young woman. It took me ages to realise that men looked at me in "that way", and when I did, I felt quite disgusted.... :(

Oh my goodness. I was about to post to say 12. But then I remembered - the pervy old neighbour (probably around 60 or 70) who used to rub himself against me and my sister when we were still in primary school and went to his house "for a sweetie". 🤮

I was an adult myself. Received plenty of horrible comments and behaviour from male peers but thank god nothing from adults while I was still a child. It's tragic that I now feel this makes me lucky..

1. On holiday in Tunisia we went on a coach trip and while the adults walked I was put on a horse and walked through a crowd of men from the coach to the restaurant. I remember all the hands all over my legs. The next year we went somewhere else and went on a horse and cart trip and I was put in the front with the driver who spent the entire trip rubbing my legs. My mother said, both times, that they were just not used to blond girls in shorts.

And then our priest would come for dinner regularly on a Saturday and sit next to me on the sofa and rub his hand all over my back and legs, I wore a bra at 11 and he would ping the strap. My mother always told me to sit next to him because he loved children and couldn't have them.

And it's not that my mother didn't know about CSA, she'd been a victim herself.

I used to think I was lucky it was just that because my friend was given a lift home by a school governor in year 6 who took her to the far end of the car park and attempted to rape her. He then went on the year 6 end of year trip and abused another girl on the trip.

That was just primary school. Obviously there's also the uncle sticking his tongue down my throat at age 14, the kerb crawling at 13, the beeping of car horns at 12 - you know, your standard kind of stuff.

Being given a lift home by a teacher in sixth form and giving him the wrong address. At least he was disbarred from teaching eventually for inappropriate relationships with sixth formers.

15, but I was a very slight late developer. What is telling though is the man said to me "if we went out everyone would think I'm a wrongun" then proceeded to grope me anyway.

Comments, about 12.

My own dedicated flasher, about 14.

Ain't life grand.

I was 8 years old. This thread is horrific but it needs to be said.

My mother always told me to sit next to him because he loved children and couldn't have them.

Again, what were these adults thinking? Was it some bizarre internal Room 101?

These stories do give an insight into the times when victim-blaming rears its head on MN and a thread ends up in mutual incomprehension.

I was physically molested by strange men on at least two occasions before I was 12. Many other non-contact incidents, eg flashers.

Those were the earliest incidents. Many more in my teens and 20s, continuing into my 40s. So glad I’m now invisible to men.

Such a sad thread.

Before I read this I thought I'd been 'lucky' to avoid much harassment as a child/teenager, but reading other peoples' experiences has brought back a host of horrible memories. I wasn't 'luckier' than anyone else here; I just think I framed my memories as somehow 'my fault' or 'trivial' so didn't tell anyone and then tried to forget, but in reality I was sexually harassed/objectified/groped/kissed by men from around 9/10: strangers, headmaster uncle, respected older member of my church, my best friend's dad, older boys, peers.

Grew up in the 70's and attitudes towards females who said they had been sexually abused were often terrible: dismissive, victim blaming, ignorant. Looking back my unspoken experiences left me with a deep distrust of most men - I secretly believe most men will either be abusive or silent about those who are abusers - either way, most men aren't 'safe' or trustworthy. A very sad but necessary state of affairs.

My DDs (young adults) are far more outspoken than I ever was about their various horrible experiences which gives me hope for their futures, though I'm angry and very, very upset that they are still having to fight for their rights to keep themselves safe from multifarious approaches and attacks from men.

How can all this - the endemic sexism in our society, the male privilege - be changed? I believe that women need to learn about what is sexual harassment and abuse and understand that they are the victims here, and be confident to speak out and be believed about their experiences, but until men become part of the solution, and actively combat these problems among their male peers and in themselves, how can anything change?

I was about 10 or 11 - groped and flashed

I was 9 and he was 30. My daughter has had a man wolf whistle at her and say "some man will be lucky when she's older". She's 4.