Grauniad: Has the Penny Started to Drop

[Mochudubh]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/dec/01/the-urinary-leash-how-the-death-of-public-toilets-traps-and-trammels-us-all

The Graun almost seems to be endorsing third spaces here.

"Public toilets are still a political issue, with the move towards gender-neutral facilities marking the latest loo revolution. While the intention is good and, if done properly, should cater for everyone, in practice it has sometimes meant little more than switching the sign on the door. Rather than starting again and building private self-contained cubicles – which would benefit everyone, including trans people, parents with children, disabled people, those who need help, men who find gents’ toilets intimidating places – often women find they are sharing their spaces with men, while men also retain access to the loos containing urinals".

Oooh, i just saw what I did there

I certainly hear a vague tinkling noise.

They used the term women? Ah of course, one of their famous misprints....

I like that trans people comes top of the list of people who need to be included

I want single-sex female loos, I don't want gender-neutral self-contained cubicles with pee on the floor and the seats.

I expect lots of men dislike that too, but at least they don't need to sit on the seats or drop their trousers into the puddles every time they need a pee.

I imagine part of the reason public toilets are being closed down is misuse. Vandalism, cottaging, dealing, arson. That kind of thing. I wonder which people do that and which people can pee in doorways and what the overlap of that Venn diagram looks like?

Self-contained spaces? - NO - they are even less safe for women as everyone can use them. I bloody hate using them; they are dirty and smelly, there is a risk of cameras being placed and if you pass out inside one nobody’s going to notice or find you for hours.

I think stalls are generally safer as I think more sexual assaults happen in private self contained cubicles. At uni people got raped in the disabled toilet.

To clarify, I would like to see these IN ADDITION to single-sex loos.

I think self-contained toilets should be available as an option wherever possible. I had sudden onset D&V the other day and let's just say I was glad of the proximity of the basin to the toilet [not envy]. Also if you've had a leak of any kind it's possible to clean up in private and dry you knickers under the hand dryer.

So no, they're not a "fits all" solution but they do have some advantages.

@MistandMud

I want single-sex female loos, I don't want gender-neutral self-contained cubicles with pee on the floor and the seats.

I expect lots of men dislike that too, but at least they don't need to sit on the seats or drop their trousers into the puddles every time they need a pee.

Sometimes the peeing all over the seats by penis havers is deliberate. There is a guy who lives in Edinburgh who boasts onTwitter about pee vandalism, it’s disgusting but he is also recruiting others to join in. Apparently peeing into soap dispensers is also a thing. Welcome to the world of gender neutral toilets.

@Mochudubh

Oooh, i just saw what I did there

Does Laurie know though ?

Some men like the single person rooms too.

My DH hates them. He is a bit of a heffalump and manoeuvring his bulk (even if not laden down with shopping) isn’t easier for him because he is male, and his enormous hands don’t fit in the little sinks they have retro fitted into those little rooms.

There are some big advantages to just having individual toilets that have a sink, towels, change table, etc. It's a very flexible arrangement and that's why it's so common in settings where they aren't trying to deal with large numbers of people.

But the reason they haven't been the norm everywhere is really that they take up a lot of space. In a setting like a movie theater where you have a lot of people going through at certain times, mostly just to pee, having only rooms like that seems difficult. Many older venues would simply not be able to do it.

I want single sex toilets. I want a space with just women. This can bring safety for women and girls.

I haven’t read the article. So sorry to ask.

But do they explain why women don’t like sharing a space with men? Because if they acknowledge this they surely have to acknowledge the problem of transwomen having access to women’s toilets?

@NecessaryScene

I certainly hear a vague tinkling noise.

Nah. That was just a man weeing on the floor.

I worry more about secret cameras in spaces men can more easily access.

In cubicles, I hate that men leave the seat up and then I have to touch it to put it down. I'm not flexible to use my foot to knock it down. So so gross.