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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paedophilia is not progressive

41 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 25/11/2021 19:35

Interesting article in Unheard

unherd.com/2021/11/paedophilia-is-not-progressive/

...in America of all places, activists are now campaigning for the destigmatisation of paedophilic desires. To remain horrified is bigoted; we need to feel empathy for the “suffering” that paedophiles face....

Walker, whose preferred pronouns are they/them, is concerned for the well-being of ‘minor-attracted people’ or MAPs, the new preferred term for individuals attracted to children. When asked about the use of MAPs in a recent interview, Walker responded: “I think it is important to use terminology for groups that members of that group want others to use for them. It is less stigmatising than other words like paedophile.” In other words: let’s not hurt the paedophiles’ feelings.

Throughout the interview, Walker deploys terms taken straight from the social justice playbook — as if paedophilia were just another sexual preference in need of its own Pride. Activists talk of “lowering stigma”; of a minority that is “at-risk” and “universally maligned”. As far back as 2017, in a PhD thesis titled Understanding Resilience Strategies among Minor-Attracted Individuals, Walker notes how “child pornography as a harm reduction technique has previously been theorised to be a potential strategy for MAPs to maintain abstinence from sexual contact with children”.....

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 25/11/2021 19:43

There have been a couple of threads related to this, good to see unheard covering it

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4403387-US-professor-wants-to-rebrand-pedophilia

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/11/2021 19:46

I doubt I am alone in wanting to see paedophilia more stigmatised, not less.

ChristinaXYZ · 25/11/2021 19:47

[quote ErrolTheDragon]There have been a couple of threads related to this, good to see unheard covering it

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4403387-US-professor-wants-to-rebrand-pedophilia[/quote]
Thank you!

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 25/11/2021 19:48

The other thread title had that the academic in that piece had been suspended, iirc.

Bunce1 · 25/11/2021 19:49

Child photography. Much blood boils over!

Child sex abuse images.

Children were harmed in the production of these images.

FUCK OFF

TheWeeDonkey · 25/11/2021 19:54

A child has to be raped in order to produce CSE. How does that reduce harm. Quite frankly paedophiles and child abusers can't be shamed enough in my eyes

IHateCoronavirus · 25/11/2021 20:03

Absolutely unforgivable. I don’t give two hoots about the stigma they face. That stigma is there for a reason.

TofuDelights · 25/11/2021 20:22

There's an article in the Mail Online I believe - there were protests about this and the article says this individual has now resigned. Don't know how to do links on my phone, sorry.

CheeseMmmm · 25/11/2021 20:24

This has been lurking around, bubbling up, slowly getting more momentum for a few years.

I think I remember c couple of pieces in mainstream press about how terribly awful it was to struggle against your 'sexuality'.

It's been an aspect of queer theory for ages.

The altering of terms and words. On surface nothing going on apart from a move to a less stigmatising term that will mean more people are helped.

But actually there's a huge change. Removing clarity, giving a different impression...

MAP

Minor.
This is a v USA term to me. Not sure what it brings to mind over there.
Minors here I think most people would think up to 16, 18.
Usually here, in the news and in conversation. We use baby, toddler, child, primary/ secondary school age, sixth former etc. Young person/ youth is somewhere 14- 23ish I'd think.

Minor then. Not a commonly used word here. What does it mean? Could be a 16yo. 14yo. Some might link to youth. Includes young adults.

So no. This is about pre pubescent children. Not secondary school. Not sixth form. Not young adults.

Not acceptable.

Then attracted.
Terminology heavily associated with gay rights movement. Since back decades ago. Born this way, not a choice, can't help who you're attracted to. Punishing / linking to paedophilia / being disgusted not right. Just like everyone else just innate same rather than opposite sex attraction.

Again. It's a word that for many subconsciously lands in a different way. Also. Attraction is generally a positive word. S/he is attractive. Fancying someone. Flattering, nice.

So no no no no nope.

CheeseMmmm · 25/11/2021 20:37

Oh and of course the massive point that

Most child sex abusers don't do it because they are actual paedophiles.

The focus with MAPs and 'virtuous peadophiles' is that reducing stigma is needed so they can get help so they won't offend.

Slight problem with this.

No one needs sex and will inevitably do whatever needed to get it.
Men who fancy adults and can't get laid certainly are not all inevitably going to rape.
And how often do women think. Can't get consensual sex from someone i fancy. I'll sexual assault someone.

The seemingly universally accepted truth that men who are attracted to pre pubescent children WILL abuse if not de-stigmatised and helped. (And maybe given images of little kids being sexually abused will help as well). Why is this a truth? That doesn't make sense.

CheeseMmmm · 25/11/2021 20:37

Oh sorry BBC

www.bbc.com/news/uk-41213657

Plenty more.

sqirrelfriends · 25/11/2021 20:40

"child pornography as a harm reduction technique has previously been theorised to be a potential strategy for MAPs to maintain abstinence from sexual contact with children”.

And how do they think this child pornography comes about, if not by abusing children?

In any case, I don't think it will reduce offending. If anything, I'd say it would likely make it worse.

Scraggythang · 25/11/2021 20:53

Every fucker gets to have their own terminology respected and shan’t be stigmatised! Except for feminists. Good job I’ve made my peace with Terf.

MrsMargaretBeaufort · 25/11/2021 20:56

I whole heartedly believe this is what is behind the trans/queer movement. The breaking down of barriers and convincing people to accept untruths 'and anything goes in a liberal woke society'. ( and whilst they were at it scooped thousands of confused susceptible teenagers and children in to it)

Having drag queens with sexual names in libraries telling stories to preschoolers.

Having drag queens with sexual names in hospital telling stories to sick children

The attacking and breaking down of womens safe spaces and language and the denial that sex exists. Age is certainly coming next.

Discussing sex games 13 year old children in sex education in school.

Producing educational packages for Adsa for children that actually talks about underage oral sex in one of the stories with in the package.

We all thought PIE went away - they didn't they just changed names and went back in to politics. Seems like its happening on the other side of the pond too. Spear headed by a women. She must be really fucked up.

sqirrelfriends · 25/11/2021 21:33

@Scraggythang

Every fucker gets to have their own terminology respected and shan’t be stigmatised! Except for feminists. Good job I’ve made my peace with Terf.
Because if you disrespect anyone else's terminology you get called a bigot and cancelled. Its far less impactful to be labelled as a misogynist than a transphobe, homophobe, racist etc. I would even go so far as to call it expected in some circles.
CheeseMmmm · 25/11/2021 21:54

Not sure spearheaded is quite the right word.

The aims, demands came from (some) men. Everything to do with this benefits a certain cohort of males (primarily).

They have managed to associate themselves fundametally with LGB, a currently large branch of feminism, the entire left. Loads of support from men and women from all of those. Automatic support.

Women have often joined, fought for things that were not in their interests. We're all individuals with different beliefs. And we often do a lot of the activism.

Other supporters include a very large quantity of men. Ones that love being able to put the boot into women. Ones that have been angry about the gains women have made. Ones that have for ages thought it outrageous that women have things for just them because not fair. Men who are just horrible. Loads of other motivations, a massive load of men.

I think focusing on the women only. While I totally understand. It's not true to say they are spearheading.

Fadette · 25/11/2021 22:00

@MrsMargaretBeaufort

I whole heartedly believe this is what is behind the trans/queer movement. The breaking down of barriers and convincing people to accept untruths 'and anything goes in a liberal woke society'. ( and whilst they were at it scooped thousands of confused susceptible teenagers and children in to it)

Having drag queens with sexual names in libraries telling stories to preschoolers.

Having drag queens with sexual names in hospital telling stories to sick children

The attacking and breaking down of womens safe spaces and language and the denial that sex exists. Age is certainly coming next.

Discussing sex games 13 year old children in sex education in school.

Producing educational packages for Adsa for children that actually talks about underage oral sex in one of the stories with in the package.

We all thought PIE went away - they didn't they just changed names and went back in to politics. Seems like its happening on the other side of the pond too. Spear headed by a women. She must be really fucked up.

I agree with all of this. Logical next step for "queer" theory.
Livpool · 25/11/2021 22:01

What the fuck?!

They should be stigmatised.

Let's protect our children. I couldn't care less about the paedos

LobsterNapkin · 26/11/2021 01:18

Maybe this was the goal, though practically speaking I think that many people simply believed the ideas found in the sex positive/queer theory ideology were true.

Many still do naively believe these things. I've seen a women on here, who see themselves as progressive feminists, say that not having some kind of sexual life is inherently unhealthy. Now yes, she also included things like masturbation. But the idea is that if you simply try to not have any sex or think about sex etc, that is actually physically and mentally unhealthy.

Many people have a basic belief of that kind, and also many believe that all kinds of odd desires are inherent, unaffected by culture or individual experiences, and these things are important points of identity.

All of these ideas have been accepted because people think they are scientifically accurate or morally useful.

CheeseMmmm · 26/11/2021 01:40

Interesting.

The views of some random individual aside.

I grew up in 70s/80s and got my sex info, as was usual when in early teens, from mags esp mizz, just 17 etc. These were circulated around the classroom during breaks so everyone could read anything in there about sex Grin

The phrase sex positive came up I'm sure. And it was in those days about. Women should enjoy sex. Female orgasm. Clitoris. Masturbation. That sort of thing.

And it was positive.

In those days things were at the end of a change that was actively called for starting a decade or so ago. Called for because in short, because lie back and think of England was a thing. Female sexual pleasure was very mysterious to the point loads of women didn't know it could be. Masturbation? Clitoris? What?

So that's what I thought sex positivity was as a movement was never actually looked into it.

Turns out that was one aspect but there were others that are... Questionable.

So thanks for prompting me to have a Google!

LobsterNapkin · 26/11/2021 03:07

Well the change was predicated in part on a big change in thinking about sex. Basically that it was "natural" and that all ideas that tried to repress sexual urges were caused by shame, and shame was a kind of oppression which was bad. Research by people like M&J was treated as showing that in reality most people were having some kinds of transgressive sex, that we were all on a sexual spectrum, etc. People were very interested too in looking at animal studies like bonobos and imagining that human sexual relations should be similar.

With the pill (supposedly) making unwanted pregnancy a thing of the past and easy access to antibiotics we would all be free to be fulfilled sexually and casual sex would be the norm for anyone who was interested, even teenagers. And all of this would be a real natural attitude to sex and so much more psychologically healthy than previous attitudes which had treated it as dangerous or something to be guarded.

It's difficult to see how it could fail to go wrong.

Fadette · 26/11/2021 06:11

What I'd transgressive sex?

Fadette · 26/11/2021 06:11

*is

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 26/11/2021 06:51

@MrsMargaretBeaufort

I whole heartedly believe this is what is behind the trans/queer movement. The breaking down of barriers and convincing people to accept untruths 'and anything goes in a liberal woke society'. ( and whilst they were at it scooped thousands of confused susceptible teenagers and children in to it)

Having drag queens with sexual names in libraries telling stories to preschoolers.

Having drag queens with sexual names in hospital telling stories to sick children

The attacking and breaking down of womens safe spaces and language and the denial that sex exists. Age is certainly coming next.

Discussing sex games 13 year old children in sex education in school.

Producing educational packages for Adsa for children that actually talks about underage oral sex in one of the stories with in the package.

We all thought PIE went away - they didn't they just changed names and went back in to politics. Seems like its happening on the other side of the pond too. Spear headed by a women. She must be really fucked up.

Don’t forget affirmation-only “therapy” for gender confused children with the aim of keeping them suspended in a pre-pubescent state.
ErrolTheDragon · 26/11/2021 09:15

@Fadette

What I'd transgressive sex?
I think for a (hopefully small) minority of people, it's sex which breaks some taboo. Which means that if something is destigmatised then they will want to push the boundary further.

There's probably quite a lot of truth in this cartoon. It's why furries in the pride parades, let alone destigmatising paedophilia , and the whole notion of 'queering society' is liable to be a ratchet towards more extreme behaviours for such people.

xkcd.com/468/

Paedophilia is not progressive