Chair of WPATH Child and Adolescent Committee says schools should not socially transition without parental involvement

[rogdmum]

Dr Laura Edwards-Leeper has tweeted in response to someone asking about schools supporting social transition without parental involvement:

“ I think this is a bad idea in 99% of circumstances. Professionals who know what they’re doing should be involved; and by not including parents, it ultimately makes the situation worse for the kid (unless the parent is abusive- that’s the 1%). I’ve actually never seen this go well”

twitter.com/drlaurael/status/1462968319636480004?s=21

If the Chair of the WPATH Child and Adolescent Committee thinks this is a bad idea (and quite strongly thinks this is a bad idea), why do schools think they know better?

That is a significant tweet there rogdmum.

I wonder if this could be used to change school’s policies?

I know of at least one set of parents from my teen’s school who discovered their daughters have been names and genders via generic school communications. Ie. Not communication about the change but the usual reports and other comms which name a child coming with a different name on.

Yes, it really is, isn’t it? I know she is speaking in a personal capacity here and not on behalf of WPATH, but it is a significant statement, and she has expressed it quite strongly.

WPATH’s new Standards of Care Version 8 is due out soon, promised to be “the first to be developed using an evidence-based approach”. It will be interesting to see if this recommendation is in there.

And she’s tweeted more:

“ I think schools are so strapped for time, they consult with orgs that are trying to help. But the cases are often extremely complex; 1 size doesn’t fit all. School protocols should be developed by mental health experts in the field and not politically driven.”

twitter.com/drlaurael/status/1463360676957622273?s=21

I am sure that having something like this addressed in the new WPATH guidelines would be of great benefit.

Good news, and sensible. WPATH have been at the forefront of pushing this internationally, and are close to Mermaids and others.

I wonder though, looking that gift horse in the mouth, whether to some extent attitudes may reflect the very different health care provisions in the US and the UK.

Health care in the US is private. Presumably this means that it is very difficult for kids to undergo (any) medical treatment without their parents, or their parent's insurers, being willing to pay. Parents who have been side-lined by schools and professionals are perhaps more likely to be hostile.

The UK is different, health care is free and some of the lobbying has been around speeding up NHS waiting lists for would-be transitioners. The Keira case is about consent, and whether a younger teenager has the capacity to consent to potentially life altering drug treatment. If they can, then no need for authorities (schools, social services, charities such as Mermaids and Stonewall, etc) to have parents on board.

Equally it might be about having an eye on potential future litigation. If so UK health providers should be equally wary.

Really interesting to me how the most extreme luminaries of the TRA movement seem to be trying to walk their positions back recently. Firstly we have Marci Bowers (the surgeon who operated on Jazz Jennings) saying that puberty blockers are not without severe risk. Now we have this.

I'd like to think it is because these people have looked at the evidence and at their own conscience and realised the damage they are inflicting on children. But that would imply they have morals. I actually suspect that class action lawsuits are rumbling into action in the US and so the more visible TRAs are seeking now to protect themselves.

I actually suspect that class action lawsuits are rumbling into action in the US and so the more visible TRAs are seeking now to protect themselves

Yep. Self preservation, not suddenly growing a conscience.

@NotBadConsidering

WPATH’s new Standards of Care Version 8 is due out soon, promised to be “the first to be developed using an evidence-based approach”. It will be interesting to see if this recommendation is in there.

Genuinely frightening that none of the previous 7 protocols have been developed using an evidence based approach. Also blindingly obvious. WPATH is why we are in this mess in the first place.

It's the only situation I can think of where a child essentially gets to self-diagnose a medical condition (gender dysphoria) and then - due in part to the long wait for GIDS - school teachers (without any specialist medical knowledge/evidence base/doctor's note whatsoever) take it on themselves to impose their own made up 'treatment protocol'.

A treatment protocol based on lying to the child, the other pupils and the family about the sex of a child, potentially taking a child out of the protection of existing safeguarding frameworks. Like that's going to sort anything.

What specialist qualifications do teachers have to do this? What evidence base are they working from?
Why are teachers doing something that flies in the face of basic psychological evidence that social transition makes natural desistance harder? Would they take it on themselves to go off piste on a child's (self) diagnosis with diabetes or asthma or a brain tumour?
Will they accept responsibility when it goes wrong?

All because Mermaids/Stonewall/Allsorts and their ilk told them to do it...

WPATH's SOC 7 neither supported nor criticised the practice of social transitioning children. The guidelines describe social transition as "a controversial issue and divergent views are held by health professionals"

So shouldn't that 'profesional' organisation have clarified and challenged the rhetoric of the lobby groups a long while ago? They must have seen first hand the damage inflicted on thousands of children and their families from following the advice of groups like Mermaids, Stonewall and their international counterparts.

It's too little and too late from LEL and I agree it's motivated by self protection.

The first little side-shuffle, backing away from the burning building WPATH had set on fire, was a little while ago when they said, “Standards? What Standards? We only ever said they were “Guidelines”. Nothing to do with us if anyone actually took any notice of a few ”guidelines” we scribbled on the back of an envelope. How silly!”

Rather like Mermaids and Harrop back-pedalling like crazy on the “born in the wrong body” mantra: “only gender crits say that!” etc.

Side note:
“I was three or perhaps four years old when I realized that I had been born into the wrong body,”
Jan Morris, “Conundrum”, 1974

WPATH has also included, for the first time, a whole section in its “Guidelines” dedicated to “Eunuchs” as well as the obligatory “Non-Binary”:

New WPATH Guidelines SOC8
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4367712-New-WPATH-Guidelines-SOC8

In that thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4367712-New-WPATH-Guidelines-SOC8?msgid=111410423

@unwashedanddazed “I just googled 'eunuch wpath' (yeah, I'm reckless) and found a forum with over 14,000 users discussing their eunuch issues. Not transwomen just regular eunuchs. I guess wpath doesn't like to miss a market.”

Post linking to podcast by Dr Laura Edwards Leeper:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4367712-New-WPATH-Guidelines-SOC8?msgid=111543558

The Gender Industry looks like it is gearing up to concentrate on expensive surgical “repairs”, surgery “outside the binary” (including “Gender Nullification” for NBs and castration for men with Castration Fetish), and the detransition market.

Wikipedia still does not have a page for Detransition. I bet that will change when the profiteers decide it is time to hit the Promote Button.

”When Transition Regret Pays”
by Mr Menno

www.the11thhourblog.com/post/when-transition-regret-pays

”WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE IN THE WILD WEST:" PARENTS OF GENDER-QUESTIONING KIDS ASK THEIR OWN QUESTIONS

Description

Part two of Gender Nuance, a three-part series for the week of October 4, 2021

In part two of this week's three-part "Gender Nuance" series, Dr. Laura Edwards-Leeper returns to answer questions from "Jolene and Marie," two pseudonymous moms of gender-dysphoric kids who were originally interviewed on The Unspeakable last July.

Dr. Edwards-Leeper, who talked alone with Meghan in part one of this series, speaks about what is involved in a comprehensive assessment of a young person seeking medicalized treatment for gender dysphoria, how such dysphoria can exist independently of being transgender, and how and why an ideological rift has emerged within her field and, in her view, shut down crucial and lifesaving dialogue within the medical establishment.

She also explains how the cohort of patients who are over eighteen but younger than mid-twenties can be especially vulnerable to the inadequacies of a system that often does not coordinate psychological care with medical intervention.

Guest Bio:
Dr. Edwards-Leeper is an Associate Professor in the School of Graduate Psychology at Pacific University in Hillsboro, Oregon. She also works with clients through her private practice in Beaverton, Oregon.

Dr. Edwards-Leeper was a member of the American Psychological Association Task Force that developed practice guidelines for working with transgender individuals. She is currently the Chair of the Child and Adolescent Committee for the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) and is involved in the WPATH Standards of Care (SOC) 8 revision.

She is an ally to the LGBTQ community and is considered an international expert in this field.

www.podcastone.com/episode/-We-Feel-Like-Were-In-The-Wild-West-Parents-of-Gender-Questioning-Kids-Ask-Their-Own-Questions-

Just for completeness, and I haven’t listened to this yet, but a different interviewee and, from the description, it’s all Trump’s fault??

WE CAN'T KNOW: LISA SELIN DAVIS ON GETTING COMFORTABLE WITH THE "GIANT MESS" THAT IS THE CURRENT GENDER CONVERSATION

Description
(My bolding)

Part three of Gender Nuance, a three-part series for the week of October 4, 2021 In the third and final part of the podcast's weeklong "Gender Nuance" series, Meghan talks with journalist Lisa Selin Davis about the cultural and political forces that have factored into the current gender movement and why the media has failed to cover the whole story.

The author of a book about the evolution of gender stereotypes and herself the mother of a gender nonconforming child, Lisa explains how the movement was galvanized by shifts in journalistic norms during the Trump administration and how institutions like schools, the nonprofit sector and the medical establishment got caught up in a worldview and treatment protocol that's backed up by very little reliable data.

She traces some of the history of gender nonconformity and explains what the concept of a "third gender" means in indigenous, nonwestern populations in places like India and Samoa.

Mostly, Lisa talks about what she's learned as a journalist covering gender issues in recent years and why it's so difficult to publish anything that deviates from the accepted narrative.

Ultimately, she says, we have to accept that talking honestly about the subject entails dealing with "a giant mess" and that ”we have to get comfortable with the fact that are some things we simply can't know."

Guest Bio:
Lisa Selin Davis is the author of Tomboy: The Surprising History of Girls Who Dare to Be Different, and the forthcoming Housewife: Exploding the Myths of Motherhood, Women's Work and the Modern Family. She has written articles, essays and op-eds for The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and many other outlets, and has published two novels, Belly and Lost Stars. She writes a regular Substack newsletter about gender issues called Broadview.

www.podcastone.com/episode/We-Cant-Know-Lisa-Selin-Davis-On-Getting-Comfortable-With-The-Giant-Mess-That-Is-The-Current-Gender-Conversation

Leeper and Erica Anderson co-authored this article. -more back pedalling and arse covering, but may help make the world a slightly less dangerous place for children and adolescents to be.

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/24/trans-kids-therapy-psychologist/

“The pressure by activist medical and mental health providers, along with some national LGBT organizations to silence the voices of detransitioners and sabotage the discussion around what is occurring in the field is unconscionable. Not only is it harmful to detransitioned young people — to be made to feel as if their lived experiences are not valid, the very idea that the gender-transition treatment is meant to remedy — but it will undoubtedly raise questions regarding the objectivity of our field and our commitment to help trans people.”