The Guardian again

[EarthSight]

Jill and I were locked in at an angry meeting by radical feminists threatening not to release us until the Guardian backed abortion of all male foetuses. Now, I tear my hair out over the latest feminist arguments over trans issues

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/20/are-the-2020s-really-like-living-back-in-the-1970s-i-wish-

Nice parallel drawn there, meant to make the later look like the modern day equivalent of the former.

Oh Polly! What a good person you are! Tearing your hair out because of all these silly women who actually insist on discussing or defending their own rights! It's all just SO frustrating and confusing isn't?!!

She also presents '"is it a girl or an abortion'' as if it's the default RadFem position, rather than the position of a few extremist crackpot misandrists.

Now, I tear my hair out over the latest feminist arguments over trans issues

The fact that she seem unable to explain what this means, but instead feels the need to dismiss the entire subject, demonstrates the lack of progress.

That was such an infuriating read. It's the first comment she's made, I think, about the trans issue. She doesn't even say which side she's on, but I assume she doesn't agree with the radical feminist position because of the dig at radical feminists in the previous sentence.

I'm a little younger than Polly, but I do remember 70s feminism, and yes, there were a few radical feminists who took extreme positions but I'm pretty sure not many were advocating for the abortion of male foetuses. (I certainly don't remember any.)

No self respecting left wing person should be reading the guardian today. I consider it centrist bourgeois reading for people who are cultural fascists.

@alienbaby

No self respecting left wing person should be reading the guardian today. I consider it centrist bourgeois reading for people who are cultural fascists.

Any self-respecting left wing person should be capable of reading articles from many sources and critically evaluating them.

So it's fine to read The Guardian, Pink News, The Telegraph, The Spectator, Private Eye etc etc

I disagree when it comes to guardian opinion pieces. That's not "news" its propaganda

That's a shame, opinion pieces are an important contribution to cultural life. Much as people sharing their thoughts online are.

If it's a habit to think about what you are reading and to read opinions from many sources then you are well placed to develop your own views.

I was a committed guardian reader from the of 17, subscriber, etc. But it just got to the point where I already knew what the guardian line and arguments were going to be before I even read the article. It didnt feel particularly challenging anymore. Now I stick to the independent and FT.

Disappointing.

What I don't understand is that technology to determine the sex of a feotus wasn't even available in the 70s. Very late 80s maybe.

When you can't present your argument honestly in order to get agreement, it's really time for another think.

#radfemsatemyhamster

I still read the Guardian, since it is free, alongside other outlets (FT, Times, BBC and Private Eye). I think open sunlight and debate is really important and I always want to see if there are good arguments that will change my mind back to where I was before I "peaked".

Generally it just seems to peak me even more.

@ThereIsAGreenHillFarAway

What I don't understand is that technology to determine the sex of a feotus wasn't even available in the 70s. Very late 80s maybe.

That's a good point! I hadn't even thought about that. I've tried googling to find out when it become possible to identify foetal sex via ultrasound and I'm not getting anything, but I think 80s sounds about right.

My first thought was, why wait all this time to say something and then come out with such a tired platitude? And yes the male foetuses story looks dishonest - and I say that as someone who didn't get on too well with feminist groups in the 70s.

The reference to the boomer generation having it all is also lazy and shows how small her world is. I'd say it's arguably correct about boomers who passed the 11 plus and went to grammar school (and I'm one of them) but the point is that most of my generation went to secondary modern schools. But then I guess the ones who left at 15 without any qualifications and ended up on the scrapheap in the 80s don't figure much in her circle.

@ThereIsAGreenHillFarAway

What I don't understand is that technology to determine the sex of a feotus wasn't even available in the 70s. Very late 80s maybe.

If this was indeed an opinion held by some feminists, what was the end goal? Asexual reproduction? End of humanity?

I want to know what PT is talking about. I think it’s very unfair to leave us hanging!