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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kellie-Jay on GBNews discussing IOC decision

26 replies

OhHolyJesus · 20/11/2021 22:07

I would recommend watching the full segment if you can but here is a clip.

twitter.com/gbnews/status/1462176341235834882?s=21

The poll closed at 97 for keeping women's sports for women.

The questions was "should trans women participate in female sports?"

OP posts:
TimOTey · 20/11/2021 22:13

I watched that. It was very good. And no, trans women should not be participating in women's sport. It's very unfair on women. It's dangerous. It takes a place away from women in their own sex category. And people watch sport to see the absolute best, whether it's in men's sport or women's sport. Watching born males identifying as women, who would never succeed in mens sport, but wipe the floor with women? I don't pay to see that. It's not the best of the sex category of women is it. No thanks.

Melroses · 20/11/2021 23:23

Thank you - will watch

RedDogsBeg · 20/11/2021 23:41

Transwomen should NEVER participate in sport for women, NO.

It's Women's sport, not sport for inadequate men who can't make the grade in their own sex category.

Delphinium20 · 21/11/2021 01:10

She raises such a good point, what exactly where the conversations that took place within the IOC to come to this conclusion? What was their reasoning?

NotBadConsidering · 21/11/2021 01:18

Ross Tucker made that point in his recent podcast. What discussions did they have? With whom? For the one he put together for rugby it was all openly disclosed and referenced. There is nothing in the new IOC document to tell who they spoke to and how they came to their decision.

They either spoke to women’s groups and ignored them or didn’t speak to women’s groups and didn’t get their view. Either is rank misogyny.

Mollyollydolly · 21/11/2021 02:31

It was very good. I do love how she states material reality, I used to be a lot more wimpy than Kelly-Jay but the more this goes on the more I think she's right. Don't give an inch.

FindTheTruth · 21/11/2021 03:22

Full segment
The Clash: Should trans women participate in female sports?

NotBadConsidering · 21/11/2021 04:53

Peter Tatchell. What a dick. He was clearly schooled with what he or someone else thought were the “must” arguments:

Quotes the two Namibian athletes as examples of “biological women” who are unfairly treated. No, Peter, they are also male.

The usual Michael Phelps unfair advantage fallacy Hmm. It’s so utterly ludicrous.

Calls for “more research”, even though it’s been done.

Posie was great, but a sports scientist would have destroyed him. It’s not 200 athletes who can run the 100m faster Posie, it’s tens of thousands, including school boys.

I loved the “I’ve feel misnamed!” though 😆.

FindTheTruth · 21/11/2021 04:58

a sports scientist would have destroyed him.

Agreed, we need Dr Emma Hilton or similar on these programmes

flygirl1983 · 21/11/2021 05:25

@FindTheTruth

a sports scientist would have destroyed him.

Agreed, we need Dr Emma Hilton or similar on these programmes

It's Ross Tiucker who is needed.
flygirl1983 · 21/11/2021 05:31

And I don't mean this to take away from Kelley Jay. She's fabulous.

Fukuraptor · 21/11/2021 05:58

No matter how slight Peter's football playing friend is, they are taking a place on a team which ought to be available to a female player. It's not as if males do not have enough football playing opportunities in this country that they have to take spots for females.

Vanishun · 21/11/2021 06:18

Peter's the one who has publicly backed paedophilia right?

Why does he have any voice in safeguarding issues?

AnyOldPrion · 21/11/2021 06:41

@Fukuraptor

No matter how slight Peter's football playing friend is, they are taking a place on a team which ought to be available to a female player. It's not as if males do not have enough football playing opportunities in this country that they have to take spots for females.
I was thinking that throughout that part of the discussion. If a male person is so small and weak that they wouldn’t get a space on a men’s team, we don’t shove them into the women’s team.

And all the women on that team might accept and love that person. But perhaps that might be helped along by the fact that despite the small size, there remains some physical or training advantage that is very useful to their team’s success. Of course that person would be welcomed if they were reasonably personable.

But there was a thread on here yesterday about a woman finding two male players on an opposing women’s team, and how demoralised she felt when competing against people with such an obvious unfair advantage. It’s not only the women on the team which includes male people who are affected by that decision.

I know Posy probably wasn’t the right person for that particular discussion (I think you could say the same about Peter Tatchell, to be fair) but I love the way she continues to be entirely uncompromising and states her point so clearly and in such a matter of fact way. It takes all the imposed “shock factor” out of the equation. So many people agree with her, but fear to say so out loud.

Seeing her do so without cringing or looking as if she is fearful of what she is saying is psychologically healthy and an inspiration to those who fear to speak out. She changes the atmosphere on this debate everyone time she does it.

Rightsraptor · 21/11/2021 07:32

Not watched it yet. Thanks for posting. It always seems to be Peter Tatchell playing Trans' Spokesman now - he's not trans so why is he permitted this role? Cynics might say it's so the egg will be on his face when all this combusts and not on Stonewall or whoever. Enough albumin & yolk does appear to be heading Stonewall's way already though.

NancyDrawed · 21/11/2021 07:52

Love Posie's response to 'Important question - Kelly-Jay, are you transphobic?'
at around 14.30

KJK: Well transphobia really means, right in this moment, that I am not willing to participate in an ideology that I don't think makes any sense, which is to say that men can be women and women can be men.
And if that means that I will be labelled transphobic, then so be it - I'm willing to have the label if it means I can speak the truth.

She is very good at responding in such a direct way, which I think takes the sting out of it. She's got ovaries of steel, that woman!

Rightsraptor · 21/11/2021 08:24

Watched it. I do admire K-J's ability to stay quiet in the face of ludicrous assertions.

Tatchell doesn't seem to realise that size does not equal strength. His short, slightly built tw friend can be, & probably is, stronger than women of the same height & weight. The thing is male puberty - if you go through that, you retain physical advantages over females. These are not erased.

lovelyweathertoday · 21/11/2021 08:53

Tatchell was superbly ridiculous. He seems to think his small friend is a reason men should play in women's teams.

He doesn't seem to get that we separate sport by sex based on average advantages that men have that mean women need separate sports.

highame · 21/11/2021 09:09

Men and transwomen have made these rulings. Men = sport and decisions about sport. Women = accept decisions that men make about sport

NancyDrawed · 21/11/2021 09:15

Tatchell always seems to have a friend to use in an anecdote which perfectly illustrates his position.

And when using the Ronaldo example, Tatchell immediately switched pronouns - something along the lines of 'if Ronaldo becomes 'Christina' then she should...

And is he really suggesting discriminating against some TW and subjecting some to testing but not others? I though we'd moved away from testing based on appearance. Why not just simplify the whole thing and say 'males in the male category, females in the female category, regardless of gender identity, clothing, name and pronouns'

OhHolyJesus · 21/11/2021 09:22

Men and transwomen have made these rulings

Exactly. And the IOC cannot say there weren't any women to consult since we have Save Women's Sports, Fair Play for Women, Dr Emma Hilton etc. There is no shortage of women to ask the questions "are you on with this? Is this fair for you?"

This is such an embarrassment, I hope all those involved with the Olympics hang their heads as this decision affects everything in women's sports, as KJ said, from the top down it will follow into grassroots sport and schools.

Perhaps this will be the exposure that is needed on a global scale for fans and audiences to wake up.

OP posts:
Campervan69 · 21/11/2021 09:40

I really do despair about how little the sporting bodies care about keeping womens sports fair and safe for female athletes. It must be so dispiriting to be a female athlete at the moment. No-one male should ever be allowed to compete against female athletes in women's sports. Completely unfair to the female athletes this will destroy women's sport if allowed to continue.

beastlyslumber · 21/11/2021 09:42

I find this so devastating. I don't understand how it can be allowed to happen. I don't understand why it's okay for the IOC to completely trash women's sports. How can they get away with it?

ItsRainingProstateOwners · 21/11/2021 09:48

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10218987/Aussie-senator-leads-calls-BAN-transgender-girls-playing-women-local-sport-comps.html

I think this is more to protect grass roots women’s sports than elite but it is really important all the same.

highame · 21/11/2021 09:55

I'm not a fan of Kellie-Jay Keen. She is too right wing, makes too many gaffs and misses some of the vital arguments. I know she argues from passion and not knowledge and sometimes she can come out with something really good. However, she's not the Front I want for GC views. She's good for GB News and I think she gets this argument out to some who might not be interested in reading Helen Joyce or Kathleen stock, or even following the debate. GB News not for me but will be interested in your comments after the event