Kathleen Stock is going to be on Triggernometry Sunday night *Edited by MNHQ*

[ScreamingMeMe]

Should be interesting.

Starts at 7pm I think.

Link to channel:

youtube.com/c/Triggerpod

"KK's wife is pregnant, so he'll be finding out soon enough"

I thought they had a child already?

I will watch the interview tomorrow. I haven't followed this because tbh, 7 years of protesting this shit has left me a little tired so .i took a break!

No, this is their first.

And there's fewer and fewer places where people can actually disagree and keep talking, so more power to them.

This is totally where they have value - when I go back through their episodes and see they're talking to people like Farage and Sebastian Gorka I cringe - but realising these things aren't black and white have really changed my outlook, as it has theirs. Interesting blokes.

@BraveBananaBadge

And there's fewer and fewer places where people can actually disagree and keep talking, so more power to them.

This is totally where they have value - when I go back through their episodes and see they're talking to people like Farage and Sebastian Gorka I cringe - but realising these things aren't black and white have really changed my outlook, as it has theirs. Interesting blokes.

I have real mixed feelings about them. I think that they are basically fairly conservative / centre right people, who thought of themselves as a bit left wing and cool and progressive, but never really were. They then got upset with aspects of the left (rightly in some respects, quite possibly wrongly in others, I think) and are claiming to seek some sort of neutral truth.

I think that whilst they are doing some good and having important debates they are also basically pushing a fairly conservative agenda under the pretense that they're progressive centre left fighting the evil leftist extremists.

I think it's best to look at people's views on a number of axes, not just the left-right one. It seems that those on "the left" who are being alienated these days by the excesses there are people who are economically liberal but socially conservative. Most of us fall into these "mixed" types of categories.

I don't really know what people mean now when they say things like conservative/center right. Or for that matter, progressive left.

These guys in particular, people like Jordan Peterson, and a number of others who have spoken out generally seem to me like classical liberals, as in, they believe in liberal democracy and significant freedoms around thought and discourse. Typically though that's also paired with a sense of people being very capable of different kinds of self-regulation which requires a lot of social structures to support in the population.

The two fit together in an important way, but I don't really see liberal democracy as being on the left or right in the west. It's more what underpins both in our kind of political system.

Interesting interview. She's incredibly composed and dignified, especially given the hell she has been through recently. I preferred her interview with Julie Bindel on Unherd - she knows JB and they are friends, and she was much more relaxed throughout

Helen Joyce would be a brilliant guest

I've often sprained my eyeballs from rolling them so hard during Triggernometry interviews 🤣 they're always an interesting watch though. I watched Will Storr's interview and enjoyed it, apart from the last few mins when he started talking about how feminism needed to be more positive and stop all the man hating 🙄 FF and KK agreed with him - unsurprisingly. Bloody idiots, the three of them

Lobster "I don't really know what people mean now when they say things like conservative/center right. Or for that matter, progressive left."

same here. Also, I have a passionate hatred of labels.

Also, I think some people call everything "right wing" unless it occupies a very specific tiny space which includes a lot of which are completely new in the 21st century and as such, can't be linked to a left or right history.

I am very careful about making up my own mind. I used to have it in my mind that Jordan Peterson was awful. He might be, I still don't know. I have heard third hand accounts of what he might have said about women and then been unable to find anything to confirm his remarks.

I also dislike the whole "why use 2 words when 30 can be used" approach.

but I then I saw his interview with Cathy Newman, which I thought was excellent and very concise, and thought "perhaps I have a totally wrong impression" and I am not sure where I got it from...I have learned to be more careful about forming opinions.

re Konstantin and baby, I thought I saw something on Twitter from him about his toddler son getting in trouble at school - obviously confused him with someone else, sorry.

I think there's a fair amount of anti-feminist feeling on the Triggernometry channel.

It would be interesting to have them on FWR for a Mumsnet discussion/debate, actually. To discuss feminism.

@ArabellaScott

I think there's a fair amount of anti-feminist feeling on the Triggernometry channel.

It would be interesting to have them on FWR for a Mumsnet discussion/debate, actually. To discuss feminism.

I probably don't watch it enough to comment

but my impression so far is a bit, to quote Eminem Slim Shady "the only difference I got the balls to say in front of y'all and I don't gotta be false and sugar coat it all" about the stuff you say in your parents living room.

they've put the living room on YouTube. My sister and were saying it would be interesting to see what happened if we put our conversations on YT that way - would it look like a bunch of horribly misandric jokes and then what happens to the true words spoken in jest?

We have a few academics in the family. I have come to really hate academia the last few years. Feels like nothing can be said as a joke any more...unless we keep it in our parents living room - but that's no way for a comedian to make a living.

@Lottapianos

Interesting interview. She's incredibly composed and dignified, especially given the hell she has been through recently. I preferred her interview with Julie Bindel on Unherd - she knows JB and they are friends, and she was much more relaxed throughout

Helen Joyce would be a brilliant guest

I've often sprained my eyeballs from rolling them so hard during Triggernometry interviews 🤣 they're always an interesting watch though. I watched Will Storr's interview and enjoyed it, apart from the last few mins when he started talking about how feminism needed to be more positive and stop all the man hating 🙄 FF and KK agreed with him - unsurprisingly. Bloody idiots, the three of them

I agree, the Unherd interview was a gem. KS was more relaxed and wasn’t on the backfoot like she is in other interviews. I enjoyed their banter and the general sweariness.

I’d love it if JB went on Triggernometry as I think that would be, erm, interesting. Agree that Helen Joyce would have been a great guest too.

'I’d love it if JB went on Triggernometry as I think that would be, erm, interesting'

I was excited about the Kathleen Stock interview, but I will DANCE A JIG if they get Julie on 😁

Also, I think some people call everything "right wing" unless it occupies a very specific tiny space which includes a lot of which are completely new in the 21st century and as such, can't be linked to a left or right history.

That's a very interesting point.

JP can be quite wordy for sure, but he's very interesting on topics related to his discipline, for example how the brain works to discern meaning. It's worthwhile in terms of thinking about how the left sometimes has a kind of utopian approach that can be non-helpful.

Most of the really crazy stuff he's supposedly said is just false, like saying climate change isn't real or that women should all be forced to marry. I've basically come to the conclusion that if it sounds unbelievable it probably isn't true.

Right, I'm about to watch it
Probably need to gird myself for the rage, don't I?

@DaisyNGO

Right, I'm about to watch it Probably need to gird myself for the rage, don't I?

No. It's fine to watch.

@LobsterNapkin Did JP say that climate change wasn't real? Because I've seen videos where he says its incredibly complicated and difficult to solve (although he seems a bit defeatist about it). But maybe he contradicted himself elsewhere. One thing about JP I noticed is that the titles to the videos are very click-baity and designed to a particular sort of person e.g. "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS feminist with logic" etc, whereas when you actually watch the video its a reasoned discussion with him responding to a question in a thoughtful way (even when I don't agree). But I think thats part of the problem of polarisation anyway.
With shows like Triggernometry - it is structured more like a conversation where they put forward views/ask questions but don't necessarily rigorously challenge each other. Which is where I think the very blokey at times opinions of the hosts comes through (its not that they are offensive). But that's fine for the format. Its quite nice watching people having a respectful discussion where they aren't necessarily trying to score points of each other.

Sorry - I just reread your post properly and saw the word supposedly! I think I misunderstood you.

Yes, people will often say he's beyond the pale for denying climate change, but it's not what he says at all. It's more that he thinks it's hopeless to get people to do what needs to be done to fix it. Which is kind of a downer but he might be quite right.