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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall backtrack on removing ‘mother’ from policies

105 replies

Leafstamp · 20/11/2021 07:10

Sorry, I don’t have a share token...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-agrees-that-mother-knows-best-7jhmfljtf

OP posts:
FlyingOink · 20/11/2021 10:52

If mother was so important to her as a word, why didn't she push back and say so internally rather than just going along with its erasure?

You're assuming "mother" is important to her as a word. She might have been lying.

I'm not convinced "her own terms" are different to the rest of the organisation.

Tabbacus · 20/11/2021 10:52

@Clymene

Yep *@EdgeOfACoin* - have a look at the thread from midwives asking women to march for them this Sunday. The word mother only appears once in their posts, swiftly followed by birthing parent. Parent is used instead of mother.

Some of their Facebook posts leave the word mother out altogether.

We are literally being erased by the women whose job it is to support us. Mad.

Congratulations on your baby too SmileThanks

Depressing isn't it, you'd think if any profession was going to advocate for women it would be the one that literally means 'with women'. Pathetic.
Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2021 10:53

The top employer of 2020 was Newcastle city council

www.stonewall.org.uk/our-top-employer-2020

So glad to see cash strapped councils spending money on this

FlyingOink · 20/11/2021 10:53

And of course she could be one of the many people who don't mind changing things for others, but want to keep things the same for themselves.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 20/11/2021 10:53

Wrong thread!

RedCarpetRebellion · 20/11/2021 10:54

@RedToothBrush

Agree. It’s all very handmadieny and I’m-not-like-other-women.

Saisong · 20/11/2021 10:56

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards...

FlyingOink · 20/11/2021 10:58

@Saisong

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards...
Perfect.
LonginesPrime · 20/11/2021 10:58

How do all those organisations feel now, having worked their arse off to go up the index possibly in the teeth of internal opposition, only to find that stuff they've been doing is now no longer part of the criteria and won't advance them?

The problem is, it's typically the LGBT employee networks and HR diversity leads who work directly with Stonewall and push their messaging and policy requirements across organisations - the only way to get organisations to see the problem is for service users/customers to speak up where it affects them and for employees to speak up to their line managers where it affects them.

HR/LGBT networks are in their own little bubble and generally filter out criticism of Stonewall, Mermaids, etc as transphobic, so they won't be reading news articles and considering reputational/legal risk.

Plus, most LGBT employee networks are run by/mainly serve gay men, who have no idea as to what women's perspectives might be on sex-based issues. There's also a lot of misogyny that goes unnoticed in these circles (as they're dominated by men), so the sexism that goes hand-in-hand with gender ideology also goes unnoticed and is not seen as problematic, as it's generally not as problematic to men.

It's only through people outside of these LGBT networks speaking up to other managers that organisations are going to see the issues, as the people in Stonewall's pockets are too blinkered to see any issue or risk still.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/11/2021 10:58

@Saisong

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards...
And whether they may be called to account for the amount of money wasted on the mindless pursuit of their stonewall ranking.
Whatwouldscullydo · 20/11/2021 11:05

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards

I'm.also.puzzled as surely their are people employed in most organisations whos job it is to know these things. I mean I have to take regular gdpr etc modules and I'm.way way way down the chain in the rankings. So it says alot about their screening processes and their training if they are so easily duped. Never mind the thousands of pounds paid to stonewall. What abkut the thousands of pounds paid ti staff members who aren't doing theor job

RedToothBrush · 20/11/2021 11:08

@Whatwouldscullydo

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards

I'm.also.puzzled as surely their are people employed in most organisations whos job it is to know these things. I mean I have to take regular gdpr etc modules and I'm.way way way down the chain in the rankings. So it says alot about their screening processes and their training if they are so easily duped. Never mind the thousands of pounds paid to stonewall. What abkut the thousands of pounds paid ti staff members who aren't doing theor job

They were just following orders...
Datun · 20/11/2021 11:21

@Saisong

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards...
Exactly. Because toilets will be next. The government don't want mix sexed toilets.

And what happens when refuges are in the press. With raped women told to reframe their trauma to benefit male born individuals who are running them.

All of it really.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 20/11/2021 11:22

Gaslighting fuckers.

Datun · 20/11/2021 11:23

@LonginesPrime

How do all those organisations feel now, having worked their arse off to go up the index possibly in the teeth of internal opposition, only to find that stuff they've been doing is now no longer part of the criteria and won't advance them?

The problem is, it's typically the LGBT employee networks and HR diversity leads who work directly with Stonewall and push their messaging and policy requirements across organisations - the only way to get organisations to see the problem is for service users/customers to speak up where it affects them and for employees to speak up to their line managers where it affects them.

HR/LGBT networks are in their own little bubble and generally filter out criticism of Stonewall, Mermaids, etc as transphobic, so they won't be reading news articles and considering reputational/legal risk.

Plus, most LGBT employee networks are run by/mainly serve gay men, who have no idea as to what women's perspectives might be on sex-based issues. There's also a lot of misogyny that goes unnoticed in these circles (as they're dominated by men), so the sexism that goes hand-in-hand with gender ideology also goes unnoticed and is not seen as problematic, as it's generally not as problematic to men.

It's only through people outside of these LGBT networks speaking up to other managers that organisations are going to see the issues, as the people in Stonewall's pockets are too blinkered to see any issue or risk still.

Yes. I completely agree.

You're still facing another barrier from within.

littlbrowndog · 20/11/2021 11:55

This is what they told Scottish government to do and SG did it. They fucking did it

Stonewall backtrack on removing ‘mother’ from policies
littlbrowndog · 20/11/2021 11:57

A lobby group told them to remove the word mother

A lobby group that they pay and SG jumped as fast as they could in the shadows

Did they ask us the people shall we remove the word mother ?

Leafstamp · 20/11/2021 12:00

If I was a Stonewalled org I'd be worried right now about what else they are going to back track on, and whether the whole thing is just a stack of cards

Indeed. Now is a really good time to ask companies (again) when they will be leaving Stonewall.

OP posts:
ixqik · 20/11/2021 12:11

Nancy Kelly was saying that they advocate for 'additive language' however. This is also a minefield. It turns the word woman into a gendered term.

'Women and pregnant people' - According to the Stonewall playbook, men can identify into 'woman'. Grammatically we pair similar concepts together. It suggests that 'woman' is a gendered term or 'pregnant people' is a sexed term.

HoardingFloralBuntingInACervix · 20/11/2021 12:18

My employer's LGBT+ network is a haven for bullies tbh. They are the ones eagerly seeking Stonewall cookies and busy shouting down anyone who dares express caution. It's utterly toxic.

littlbrowndog · 20/11/2021 12:21

Yeah floral bullies have found a way they can bully get supported for bullying and they also feel good and virtuos for bullying

ArabellaScott · 20/11/2021 12:24

Nancy Kelley, the Stonewall chief executive, denied in an interview that such a policy existed. “We’re not interested in removing or erasing the word ‘mother’,” she said.

Well, that's just a lie, isn't it, Nancy? So you've changed the policy. Good.

Now can we talk about same-sex attraction, Nancy? And 'born in the wrong body'?

GoodieMoomin · 20/11/2021 12:26

I haven't rtft yet but would like to add this on the point of "oh, that's old advice and out of date"... It's a feature, not a bug. The rules are always changing on purpose. It's a way to control people through fear.

I'm reminded of this video. It's a recording of a gender identity theory lecture to medical professionals in the US. Essentially, "you must learn all this new stuff and it'll probably change in a minute, but just take my word for it and don't ask questions"

Whatwouldscullydo · 20/11/2021 12:37

They were just following orders

Orders from people also paid to know the basics .

Maybe employees should use that in dicilplinaries? If its ok to ignore the law and spend thousands if pounds on illegal controversial advice akd put it in place despite knowing it was wrong then u cabt fire me fir not showing up once or nicking a tenner from the till?

Artichokeleaves · 20/11/2021 12:49

Well we've got Harrop at the moment arguing that the code of SM conduct ceases to matter if it's a gender identity matter and that trumps every other consideration.

Poor MoJ. When you've sacrificed every single female you have a duty of care towards to the better happiness of TW, entirely blocked your ears to female voices, hardened your hearts and managed to convince your entire organisation to stop caring about females and their needs and best interests and you still don't get into the top 4 with Stonewall....?

Makes you wonder what the actual fuck you're required to put on the altar for them.