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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns - University College Dublin

7 replies

SuperSleepyBaby · 18/11/2021 05:53

Just wondering what people think of this?

www.ucd.ie/equality/support/lgbtisupports/transgenderawarenessweek2021/?fbclid=IwAR3u5UL-OTXOr_LotTn5Qkfv86gZPwJ2lgBRb3RsLgM7HFuGbVcyZ8KfCp4

There is a link on this page under the heading Email Signature & Logo to this website
www.mypronouns.org/what-and-why/

Here are some extracts from the mypronouns.org link:

“ , it can be offensive or harassing to guess at someone’s pronouns and refer to them using those pronouns if that is not how that person wants to be known.”

“ Sharing your own pronouns is a great idea, but it isn’t requisite. Keep in mind, however, that there is a privilege of appearing in a way that fits both your gender and the pronouns that many people associate with your gender.”

“ A person could be a man or a woman or both or neither and share any number of these sets of pronouns as the correct ones to use for them, but which set they go by is not necessarily indicative of their gender, even though for most people there is an association between the pronouns they go by and the gender they are.”

“ No Pronouns - Use My Name (example for someone whose name is “Lan”): “Lan is a writer and wrote that book. Those ideas are Lan’s. I like both Lan and Lan’s ideas.” If the reflexive component was important to communicate a message, you could use alternative language such as “Lan wrote that book unassisted” or “Lan was the sole author of that book.” Some might simply say "Lan wrote the book Lan's self.”

“ There are additional sets of pronouns that some people might use (e.g. ze/zir, per/pers, ey/em, xe/xem, etc.).”

“ Some people ask that others vary the pronouns that are used within certain sets of pronouns. If in doubt about what that means for someone or to request examples of how to do that in practice, ”

“……. Please note that these examples focus on times when mistakes are made because of forgetfulness or ignorance -- different strategies may be necessary when people get pronouns wrong because they are being intentionally and consciously hateful….”

OP posts:
ViceLikeBlip · 18/11/2021 06:13

I've never had a problem with referring to someone as he/she if it's obvious that's what they want (I'm a teacher in a secondary girls' school, and the only time I actually come across this is with genuinely disturbed girls, usually with eating disorders and/or self harming. I fully understand these girls can't change sex, but using preferred pronouns gives them some breathing space. None of our girls has ever gone on to any sort of medical pathway).

I actually prefer it if people want to use "they/them" because it feels fair enough to want to opt out of your own restrictive gender stereotype without automatically thinking you're entitled to just pick up the other one.

But I honestly don't think the public at large have any patience with zi/zim/zir, or with people wanting them to change pronouns midsentence. Or men with a full beard requesting "she". It just won't happen, no matter how "hateful" that may be.

SouthernFashionista · 18/11/2021 06:17

Utter nonsense Hmm

Kotatsu · 18/11/2021 06:18

“ , it can be offensive or harassing to guess at someone’s pronouns and refer to them using those pronouns if that is not how that person wants to be known.”

Sorry, what? How on earth do they envisage that working in public? Or do they see this as only being for the blue-haired special few?

“ Sharing your own pronouns is a great idea, but it isn’t requisite. Keep in mind, however, that there is a privilege of appearing in a way that fits both your gender and the pronouns that many people associate with your gender.”

really? I think the privilege might be in having the idea that you can enforce how other people use the fundamentals of the language. I think there might actually be an anti-privilege (the word escapes me) in the fact that no matter what I wear, I am easily identifiable as a woman, and so people project gendered expectations on me (and I don't bloody mean calling me 'she')

Abhannmor · 18/11/2021 08:56

My pronoun would be ucd. Pronounced ukd. If anyone gets it wrong I'll tell the students union. Meanwhile let us remember all the trans ppl murdered in Ireland - 0.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 18/11/2021 09:14

Same, Kotatsu! Of course it was a great privilege having men grabbing my breasts painfully when I was young, and having to fix mistakes made by men promoted over me at work… Hmm

3timeslucky · 18/11/2021 09:27

A person could be a man or a woman or both or neither

Eh no, they couldn't. They really couldn't. They can be a man or a woman. It will have been helpfully recorded for them on their birth cert.

What a load of shite.

The only positive is that they've kindly conceded that it isn't a requisite that students (and staff) "share" their own pronouns. Though clearly it is essential that they tie themselves in knots and disassemble the English language to get other's pronouns "correct".

It is so convoluted and counter-productive as a result. How about "Some people may want you to use pronouns that do not match their biological sex. If this is the case they will let you know. You may choose to do your best to use the pronouns they've requested. However this is not a requisite."

allmywhat · 18/11/2021 09:58

Huh. That almost reads like someone is trying to mitigate the damage of this nonsense. People can refuse to share them and they can use their names as pronouns and it’s not a good idea to start aggressively they-ing butch lesbians. I hate the pronoun religion but that’s a slightly more palatable form of it than usual.

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