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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Workplace E&D training - UK Law Gender/Sex

21 replies

Theflamingnerd · 12/11/2021 12:01

We have to take a compulsory training module at work, and the first page states this:

*In the UK our laws provide protection against discrimination based on a number of different characteristics.

For example it protects people from being discriminated against because of their gender, race, disability, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, age or because they are in a marriage or civil partnership.*

Have I gone loopy, or are we not also protected from discrimination based on sex? Given that they've missed this vital characteristic, where do I stand on completing the rest of the module? My suspicion is that it's biased, and inaccurate and I don't particularly want to waste 45 mins on completing it in that case. Is it worth flagging to anyone, or will this likely out me as a trouble maker? Has anyone had any experience of challenging something like this?

As far as I know my company is not part of the SW index and we don't have champions. But we've been told the module is compulsory to ensure the company remains "compliant", with what I don't know but I have also been requested to complete an environmental awareness module for the same reason.

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MonsignorMirth · 12/11/2021 12:06

Based just on that, I'd assume for now they could be in the "gender-as-polite-word-for-sex" camp and hadn't really thought about it, as they seem to be "explaining" rather than just listing the PCs.

Shedbuilder · 12/11/2021 12:12

You're right, gender is not protected, sex is and so is gender reassignment. They've rewritten the Equality Act 2010 to Stonewall rules. Somewhere there's a good article on why employers need to be very careful if they've accepted Stonewall training because it could get them into trouble — but I've googled and can't find.

If it's possible I'd point this out at the highest level in your company and refuse to complete the module on the basis that if they've got that wrong, there may be other things wrong and that it may all backfire on the company.

Who's provided the training?

BloodinGutters · 12/11/2021 12:16

@Shedbuilder

You're right, gender is not protected, sex is and so is gender reassignment. They've rewritten the Equality Act 2010 to Stonewall rules. Somewhere there's a good article on why employers need to be very careful if they've accepted Stonewall training because it could get them into trouble — but I've googled and can't find.

If it's possible I'd point this out at the highest level in your company and refuse to complete the module on the basis that if they've got that wrong, there may be other things wrong and that it may all backfire on the company.

Who's provided the training?

The legal feminist one?

I have zero idea of the exact link to put here but it’s linked on many threads here op, or google & find it.

Sex and gender reassignment are the legally protected characteristics. If organisations have policies or procedures or training based on an inaccurate representation of the equality act then the organisation themselves might be breaking the law.

Theflamingnerd · 12/11/2021 12:33

@Shedbuilder

You're right, gender is not protected, sex is and so is gender reassignment. They've rewritten the Equality Act 2010 to Stonewall rules. Somewhere there's a good article on why employers need to be very careful if they've accepted Stonewall training because it could get them into trouble — but I've googled and can't find.

If it's possible I'd point this out at the highest level in your company and refuse to complete the module on the basis that if they've got that wrong, there may be other things wrong and that it may all backfire on the company.

Who's provided the training?

It's a company called Astute Learning.

I'll have a look for the articles both you and @BloodinGutters mentioned

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Whatsnewpussyhat · 12/11/2021 12:41

It's always deliberate. Trying to slyly remove the protected characteristic of sex by simply missing it off or putting gender which is not protected and is meaningless.

Shedbuilder · 12/11/2021 12:49

This is the Legal Feminist article and it explains exactly why employers need to get the Equality Act right:

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/06/06/legal-risks-for-stonewall-members/

Worth quoting from or forwarding to your HR department, OP.

VelvetChairGirl · 12/11/2021 12:53

Complain that its wrong.

Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic under the law, the law is binary in the UK, in terms of The Equality Act 2010 you are protected under sex, male or female and gender Identity only if you have a Gender Recognition Certificate that makes you legally the opposite Gender and thus treated as the opposite sex to that you are born under the law.

other then that Self ID is not law in this country and anyone who is doing so is covered by the same laws as everyone else, human rights act etc and equality based on their sex not Self ID.

VelvetChairGirl · 12/11/2021 12:59

@VelvetChairGirl

Complain that its wrong.

Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic under the law, the law is binary in the UK, in terms of The Equality Act 2010 you are protected under sex, male or female and gender Identity only if you have a Gender Recognition Certificate that makes you legally the opposite Gender and thus treated as the opposite sex to that you are born under the law.

other then that Self ID is not law in this country and anyone who is doing so is covered by the same laws as everyone else, human rights act etc and equality based on their sex not Self ID.

Oh and I might add those with with a GRC can still be excluded from places that are deemed should only be same sex on sensitivity grounds, like rape shelters
EarthSight · 12/11/2021 13:01

Maybe say that you're not willing to complete this until it's corrected.

If it's a training module about U.K laws about discrimination, then they need to use accurate and clear language.....so using 'gender' as a synonym for sex just won't do as 'gender' has multiple meanings to different people and it's the word 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' that are included in the Equality Act. If they made such a basic error, how can you trust the rest of the training? I would refuse saying you don't want to be taught things that are factually incorrect or unclearly written.

BloodinGutters · 12/11/2021 13:02

@VelvetChairGirl

Complain that its wrong.

Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic under the law, the law is binary in the UK, in terms of The Equality Act 2010 you are protected under sex, male or female and gender Identity only if you have a Gender Recognition Certificate that makes you legally the opposite Gender and thus treated as the opposite sex to that you are born under the law.

other then that Self ID is not law in this country and anyone who is doing so is covered by the same laws as everyone else, human rights act etc and equality based on their sex not Self ID.

No this isn’t accurate either.

You’re correct about sex under the equality act.

Gender identity is not in the equality act at all. Gender reassignment is. Gender reassignment refers to anyone intending to transition, not just those with a grc. However the expansion on the term gender reassignment does not use the term gender identity at all, or transgender. It does use transsexual though.

Gender reassignment certificate is a different piece of legislation, that has different legal implications. But still doesn’t superseded the equality act single sex exemptions.

MonsignorMirth · 12/11/2021 13:28

To me it reads like an introduction rather than being a comprehensive list. What does the next bit say? You'll look silly if you go in all guns blazing and it lists the correct PCs on the next page.

If it continues to misrepresent them then yeah, that's embarrassingly bad.

Masdintle · 12/11/2021 13:33

They've missed out pregnancy and maternity as well so a double whammy for women 🤬

Theflamingnerd · 12/11/2021 13:53

@MonsignorMirth

To me it reads like an introduction rather than being a comprehensive list. What does the next bit say? You'll look silly if you go in all guns blazing and it lists the correct PCs on the next page.

If it continues to misrepresent them then yeah, that's embarrassingly bad.

I did the next few sections and there was no further mention of PC's. My problem is that it's a 45 minute exercise and I really haven't got the will or the inclination to devote that much time to something that is possibly wrong. I also have to complete an assessment at the end and require 80% to pass, I'm concerned I may have to submit factually incorrect answers in order to pass.

It could be right further in, but it doesn't bode well when the first page is so glaring wrong. It wouldn't have been difficult to change gender to "sex and gender reassignment" there was plenty of space on the page for it so it wasn't a formatting issue.

I'd love to give them the benefit of the doubt but given the general state of things I've used up my lifetime quota of kindness. I suppose as and when I have the leisure I'll complete on my own schedule "compliance" be damned and if they ask why I can refer to the first page.

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lanadelgrey · 12/11/2021 14:33

Complain or make an innocent inquiry to whatever dept requires you to do this and head of HR who should have an inkling of the law. Often they buy this stuff in without thinking whether it is actually giving the correct info

Abitofalark · 12/11/2021 16:30

@VelvetChairGirl

Complain that its wrong.

Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic under the law, the law is binary in the UK, in terms of The Equality Act 2010 you are protected under sex, male or female and gender Identity only if you have a Gender Recognition Certificate that makes you legally the opposite Gender and thus treated as the opposite sex to that you are born under the law.

other then that Self ID is not law in this country and anyone who is doing so is covered by the same laws as everyone else, human rights act etc and equality based on their sex not Self ID.

It listed gender, which is wrong. It didn't mention gender identity. You did and it's also wrong, as is the rest of that statement about only if you have a gender recognition certificate.
LonginesPrime · 12/11/2021 16:42

My advice would be:

  • take screenshots of each page and paste into a word doc as you work through the training
  • as it's mandatory, continue the course as directed and answer the test using the "facts" it has taught you
  • mark up the incorrect bits of law afterwards and send it with your commentary and a link to the Equality Act 2010 (www.legislation.gov.uk) to HR or whoever asked you to do the training.

Personally, I would focus on the fact that sex as a protected characteristic is missing as opposed to the fact that 'gender' has been included.

This is because (1) it's the fact that sex has been excluded that disadvantages women and is reasonably likely to lead to your employer breaching the Equality Act 2010 in respect of sex discrimination by training employees (whose actions it has vicarious liability for) that sex isn't a protected characteristic, and (2) individual gender identity/expression is protected under the Equality Act under the category of religion or belief, so it's incorrect to say that "gender" in the way gender ideologists understand it isn't protected - it's just not protected under the category of "sex".

MsGoodenough · 12/11/2021 16:44

If I were you I'd just flag up to whoever bought in the training that it's wrong. Do it in a supportive way as in you don't want your company wasting money on training that can't get the facts right.

Abitofalark · 12/11/2021 16:53

Why not send an email or make a phone call to inform the senior HR person that it isn't correct in terms of the Act so not a legally valid exercise to ask staff to complete, based on misleading and factually incorrect information about the law. As well as requiring wrong answers to score highly, it would not meet the standard for the employer's obligation under the Act and would reflect badly on the company's reputation and regard for compliance with the law.
Let them sort it out.

nothingcomestonothing · 12/11/2021 16:53

This might be useful? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4387775-well-done-Lionshead-solicitors

Manderleyagain · 12/11/2021 17:00

gender, race, disability, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, age or because they are in a marriage or civil partnership.
Aswell as sex, gender reassignment and pregnancy/maternity already mentioned, its religious or philosophical belief, not just religious.

They might say these are just a few examples, but that would suggest a hierarchy of characteristics, rather than treating them all as equally important. I agree with others saying do it, then tell them what was wrong and why they should take notice (presented as being helpful and supportive).

Theflamingnerd · 12/11/2021 17:20

@LonginesPrime

My advice would be:
  • take screenshots of each page and paste into a word doc as you work through the training
  • as it's mandatory, continue the course as directed and answer the test using the "facts" it has taught you
  • mark up the incorrect bits of law afterwards and send it with your commentary and a link to the Equality Act 2010 ([[//www.legislation.gov.uk]]) to HR or whoever asked you to do the training.

Personally, I would focus on the fact that sex as a protected characteristic is missing as opposed to the fact that 'gender' has been included.

This is because (1) it's the fact that sex has been excluded that disadvantages women and is reasonably likely to lead to your employer breaching the Equality Act 2010 in respect of sex discrimination by training employees (whose actions it has vicarious liability for) that sex isn't a protected characteristic, and (2) individual gender identity/expression is protected under the Equality Act under the category of religion or belief, so it's incorrect to say that "gender" in the way gender ideologists understand it isn't protected - it's just not protected under the category of "sex".

This is great advice, thank you!
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