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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feeling old!

13 replies

readytoretire · 11/11/2021 19:48

Quite new too all this but i've been reading a lot recently, material girls, trans, listening to the Nolan podcast etc. Also would like to try to understand other views so have been reading up on Mermaids and Stonewall. Something I really struggle with is all the gender identities. It doesnt feel at all helpful to transgender people to use self identity as a term for so many different things. Many of these sound more like personality traits than identities. I read an article on Mermaid today that talked about Neopronouns by someone who identifies as a Maverique. This is defined as "Maverique is a non-binary gender that is defined as being completely independent from male, female, masculine, feminine, neutral, or anything in between or derived from any of them. It is also not a lack of gender. It is characterized by autonomy and inner conviction regarding a sense of gender which is unorthodox, unconventional and entirely independent of conventional concepts of gender. Despite this maveriques have a distinct and firm sense of gender."

I'm really struggling to understand how this sort of thing helps to improve understanding of transgender issues. And how can we cover identities like this in law. Where proposed legislation refers to lgbtq+ do people realise the range of identities that this might include. I can understand why identifying with ids such as Ace might appeal to young people, I'm just not sure it makes sense to try to legislate for this, any more than it would make sense to include introvert as a protected characteristic. Does someone identifying as a Maverique need protection from potential discrimination based on their (non) gender? Sometimes I wonder if young people are just playing a joke on us oldies and are actually giggling in corners at our gullibility. There was a thread recently about someone who self identified as a cat and I have absolutely no idea if this was a joke or not! Feeling very old!

OP posts:
HereticFanjo · 11/11/2021 19:52

Essentially it's all just a desperate cry for validation and the age-old urge to be different while remaining safely in the herd. Don't lose any sleep over it. It'll fizzle out as soon as us oldies start identifying as unikitties and folx.

NecessaryScene · 11/11/2021 20:45

There was a recent survey showing 39% of Gen Z in America "identifying as LGBTQ".

unherd.com/thepost/being-lgbt-has-become-cosplay-for-millennials/

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1458717913544904704?t=S-7Sq76d1aZcQbOLIkbBDw

Of course, only a very small minority are actually same-sex attracted. For the majority it's just an odd identity thing.

It's part of some clear mental health issues, or attention-seeking behaviour, or both, as clear from the tables in the article linked from here.

twitter.com/sullydish/status/1458489130967519232

("More than 1 in 3 members of Generation Z* avoided going to a doctor to avoid experiencing discrimination")

Personally I think what we're now seeing is the answer to "what happens if you raise human children in a society with ubiquitous Internet access?"

Feeling old!
LobsterNapkin · 11/11/2021 20:56

It's no different really than being goth, or punk, or what in my school was called "alternative". It's a way of feeling special and cool and non-conformist by putting yourself in a nice comfortable box.

readytoretire · 11/11/2021 21:51

LobsterNapkin - yes, I hadn't thought of it like that but it is just like that isn't it. Only goths and punks etc didnt have people campaigning for them to be recognised as a category in discrimination law.

OP posts:
dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 11/11/2021 22:03

Don't give all this 'Trans Gender Identity Ideology' anymore headspace than necessary. 'Queer theory' seems to be totally anarchic....so your confusion is what they want and ultimately the breakdown of civil society.
It's an ideology, so they can't force people to embrace it...alas politicians and institutions have been 'asleep at the wheel' and/or complicit; and Stonewall et al have got way more traction really quickly than anyone could have believed possible.
The Government should never talk about 'assigned at birth' /'pregnant people' in an official document. It is a denial of reality. The House of Lords was one of the first places to push back...old fogies aren't all bad lol.
The next thing we need is 'gender identity ideology' out of our schools. I hope it can be rolled back but don't feed the 'woo' by taking it too seriously and do not ever call yourself 'cis'. Just because schools present it as if a scientific theory, doesn't mean it is.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 11/11/2021 22:04

Can you tell how Angry I am? I thought the fight for women's rights was over.

Notashandyta · 11/11/2021 22:06

What a big load of horse s*it

PhiRhoSigma · 11/11/2021 22:10

@Notashandyta

What a big load of horse s*it
Yup!
PhiRhoSigma · 11/11/2021 22:11

@Notashandyta

What a big load of horse s*it
So apt, I'm going to quote it again.
Foxy333 · 11/11/2021 22:23

I do find it very sad. Because I always had hoped we were moving further away from gender / sex stereotypes as a society. But these new 'identities' just seem to re-inforce them all, even more so.

Surely the only thing me and another woman somewhere definitely have in common is the same physical parts in being a woman, genitals, breasts etc. That's all! I don't identify with any cultures sex-stereotypes. I'm just me, living my life.

It seems like we are going in the wrong direction. Sure teens can be alternative, be into weird and wacky fashion or music, fine.
I had male friends who wore mad clothes, make-up sometimes & dyed their hair.

Back then no one questioned the facts of sex and biology.
I worry that some young people think u can actually change sex, that the operation fully works. From what I have read, the surgery either way is a poor attempt at creating the opposite sex's genitals and leaves those who try it, somewhere in the middle with long term health effects and often poor sexual function or satisfaction. I don't think this is well known.

Or maybe it is....that's why so few trans people actually have surgery on their genitals.

FemaleAndLearning · 11/11/2021 22:51

I think they just want to feel unique and special like cutie marks on my little p onies. Can't wait for it to fizzle out.

readytoretire · 12/11/2021 00:10

Thanks for the links NecessaryScene. Really agree with one of the comments that so many people identifying as TQ+ just renders it meaningless.

OP posts:
LobsterNapkin · 12/11/2021 00:13

@readytoretire

LobsterNapkin - yes, I hadn't thought of it like that but it is just like that isn't it. Only goths and punks etc didnt have people campaigning for them to be recognised as a category in discrimination law.
And the adults also just didn't take it seriously. So soon enough most kids realized that actually, it was a little bit performative.
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