Year 10 daughter advice please non binary

[Okhowtohandle]

DD is very high achieving and moved schools a year ago from an all girl grammar has settled in well and made lovely friends.

I’ve just got the autism referral from the school and it says the following - to the question about gender identity - it says ….DD identifies in school as non binary as do ALL the girls in the form. DD had non binary friends all changing their name but she hadn’t or so I thought. She said recently ‘biological sex is in your dna’ according the form tutor all the girls in the form are now identifying as non binary - all of them including DD. In a massive school (12 form entry) conservative estimate by the form tutor is 50% to 75% of the girls are identifying as non binary- they don’t yet have any boys identifying as non binary. DD has never had any contact with the biological father he left me when I was pregnant. Her siblings father was abusive and we left and he wanted to see her and she refused. She feels the world is set against girls with violence, court etc even university applications. Women are judges on earrings make up and shoes etc but boys aren’t. She’s had good female role models but my father was very close to her until she was dropped like a stone as she questioned them over some horrid actions towards me - so was seeing them daily haven’t seen them in nearly a year and she hates him (my father) and never wants to see him again. He is a nasty bugger so I don’t blame her.

Firstly she hasn’t told me about being non binary.

How can I address it with support and compassion.

Anyone else have a teenager DD with autism (school are pretty sure she has it) referral in hand.

Hi Op, this all sounds very hard.
Has your daughter shown any signs of being NB? She obviously hasn't spoken to you about it, do you generally communicate well?
Obviously a conversation is in order with her, but she sounds like she could be a very confused young girl, there is obviously a trend in the school which is worryingly high, so you will need to be careful in how you address this.

I'd possibly just ignore it, does it matter/make any difference? If she's not mentioned it and it's just a box on a form I would just pretend not happened. If it makes a material difference I'd speak to her but she seems pretty switched on?

As in, has she only said it because of peer pressure/wanting to be like others in which case it's not really her own feelings?

How does “being non binary” express itself in day to day life? Isn’t it similar to being “a goth” or “emo” a few decades ago? I’d say some kind and emotionally intelligent male role models will help whatever “she is”, but otherwise I’d just smile and carry on.

@5zeds

How does “being non binary” express itself in day to day life? Isn’t it similar to being “a goth” or “emo” a few decades ago? I’d say some kind and emotionally intelligent male role models will help whatever “she is”, but otherwise I’d just smile and carry on.

That's what I wanted to type, explains it much better

I’ve talked to her and we are very very very close. She’s confided in me about a drama non binary friend who has changed her name 6 times etc

I’m at a lost.

We are pro gay rights in this house but all these gender identities seem to be a smoke screen to me. What does non binary mean other than not accepting gender stereotypes? She’s always be anti men which is sad but given her experience not unexpected although she has had private counselling several times.

Her form tutor said despite her academically brilliance she is not ‘street wise’ and not very mature - comes across as aged 11 socially very nervous and anxious despite having good friends. Academically she’s an extremely high flyer

As has been repeated said, the amount of overlap between gender critical and none binary thinking is huge

Gender critical however tend to say that they won't change themselves at all , and I think tend to recognise more how much external oppression rather than internal essence matters ( you can't be either in a world with no gender expectation)

So you don't need to do anything really

Support snd love your child , ignore the labels , remind her how perfect and special she is

My eldest son is 20 , when he was in Yr 10, half of the girls if not more were going down this route, non binary, very anti men, now you see them out and about with their boyfriends so l wouldnt worry to much ,it seems to be a popular phase with young girls.right now.

I imagine with so many other girls presenting as NB there’s some element of other girls wanting to fit in with the majority especially if some of these girls struggle socially (and let’s face it, who didn’t struggle as a teen).

Non binary seems to mean saying you don’t want to be defined by gender stereotypes while defining everything by gender stereotypes.

It's not a problem. I'd just ask her if she's okay about it and if there's anything she'd like to talk about regarding that. She sounds from your OP like she's happy and had friends, so I really wouldn't worry.

I would be inclined to ignore it as much as you can.

If literally all the other girls in her year are calling themselves NB, I'd be inclined to think she's just trying to fit in.

I'm not dismissing it, but I think it will pass.

My eldest is 17. When she started secondary it was a HUGE craze to declare you were no-sexual. Honestly, most of the children in the year said they were bi, including the boys. DD confided in me her worry that she thought she was straight and was quite upset about it. I just said "Well, you can't help what you are" and kind of left it. By Y9 it had mostly been forgotten including most of the other kids.

When DD was 14 she told me she was 'going out' ie romantically with her FtM trans friend. I just said "oh ok". They went to town once and it was never really mentioned again. They're still friends but in a wider circle but def not involved with each other in a relationship.

Now they have one or two NB's at school and one trans FtM but it's not a massive thing.

Just keep talking and keep close - that's the best thing is that she's telling you things and opening up. I would just not dwell on it.

Damn auto correct

No sexual = *bisexual

If I was a teenager again and all the other girls in the class said they were non-binary, I'd say I was too, for an easier life. My old friendship group slowly went non-binary and in retrospect, it became a way to jockey for social position with cisprivilege this, cisprivilege that. And you can't just leave school because people get on your nerves.

Schools should not be wasting time telling children to think about the unscientific concept of Gender Identity Theory. We all know why they are though.
I would just tell her she is a biological female and she can love whoever she likes when she grows up. She does not have to put labels on herself. Explain that you don't have a gender identity because you don't need one. Explain that you are simply a biological female and happy with it.
Tell her about flat earthers maybe....

The one thing I would say is that there is a massive and under-reported correlation between gender issues and neurodiversity, specifically autism. It can be a way of expressing a profoundly felt sense of difference in what is currently a socially very acceptable way.

Lots of other good advice on this thread, but do pursue the autism diagnosis. Discovering some other reasons for why she feels as she does may be very helpful for her.

(some of this has happened to me, only my daughter has ADHD. However I am a raging feminist and so she gets quite a lot of my opinions about the reductionist nature of gender stereotyping and how it's better to fight to change the world, not your sex...)

Well we’ve just had a huge conversation. She says she doesn’t define as anything. She named names as said at least 5 girls identify as female and only 2 as non binary or gender neutral. She very upset and angry that her form tutor says that she identifies as non binary. She said it was odd and the tutor who is a maths teacher asked her how she wanted her gender entered on the senior maths challenge today and she said ‘I’m female’ so it may be a blanket terminology the tutor is using for the whole group so as not to offend anyone. The whole thing is bizarre. She’s open and honest and says she doesn’t identify as anything other then female and hates all the focus on it when she’d rather get onto her studies.

Bit concerned now about how the school approaches it - on her referral about gender id she says ‘all the girls in my tutor group identify currently as non binary or gender neutral and about 50-75 % of the year group’ she’s a highly respected teacher. I had a very open conversation with DD she knows I love her whatever x

If all the girls are doing it I think I would just support her as best you can without making an issue of it.

Your child already realised she may see the world differently than some of her peers. She can see that with the other child involved in the name change drama.
I think the primitive part of us understands that being different can have dangerous consequences and the other girl would only act that way if she is sure that she will not be rejected for acting silly.
You could get her to explore how her social group responds and how the group dynamic changes if everyone decided to respond by "that's nice dear, I hope it's not raining when we are going home".
So the discussion is around peer pressure not being NB

Explain that one of the hardest things in growing up is realising we may stand out from the crowd. That having the self confidence to be comfortable to show people who we are in the face of possible rejection is Major Adulting. So that lots of adults never feel confident enough to be first.

Or that it's not untill something is so important that the person is willing to pay the price.
Eg You left your partner because you wanted a better life outcome for yourself and your children.
She felt she had to speak out when she stood up for you.
Can you explain how what she did was brave and from a place of love yet your father is punishing her because of what she felt was right.

Basically explore how having the confidence to be an individual is hard.

tutor who is a maths teacher asked her how she wanted her gender entered on the senior maths challenge today

Wtf!

What is the school doing in maths which requires a gender identity?

In think you need to get the policy documents that the teachers are using.

It's no wonder the girls are IDing if they are in a gender roll call in maths.

@SolasAnla

tutor who is a maths teacher asked her how she wanted her gender entered on the senior maths challenge today

Wtf!

What is the school doing in maths which requires a gender identity?

In think you need to get the policy documents that the teachers are using.

It's no wonder the girls are IDing if they are in a gender roll call in maths.

She’s really academic and was doing a maths challenge online - I think the senior maths Olympiad thing or something - she often does papers and competitions in maths for the school - she got a level 9 at gcse aged 13 and has done the a level maths course. I think they had to enter first name last name sex / gender and was surprised the teacher asked her what she wanted to put (!) I wonder if this is a whole school policy encouraging inclusiveness - daughter said she found it bizarre and says a lot of her friends wear ‘identifying badges saying I identify as non binary call me them / they / their and she refused to join in - she knows I would be supportive. She is very scientific and says you can’t change dna - if people want to trans and go for gender reassignment surgery that’s ok and she says she has never had a boyfriend or girlfriend but open to the idea of a potential partner who treats her fairly and supportively. We talked about the ex etc and she said I don’t and never have blamed you, you took us to safety, you stepped back in your career and we’re the best mum ever getting me counselling and fighting for our protection in court - and it’s not your fault I admire you 😢

I’d talk to school given she already has emotional turmoil surrounding “men” and suggest that their approach is unnecessarily upsetting for girls with similar histories (of which there will be many). How fucking dare they cause anymore upset for this child?

@5zeds

I’d talk to school given she already has emotional turmoil surrounding “men” and suggest that their approach is unnecessarily upsetting for girls with similar histories (of which there will be many). How fucking dare they cause anymore upset for this child?

Yes. Insist they just record her as female on all their ridiculous forms even if female does not mean sex to them anymore, it does to your daughter.

It's a 12 form entry school and 50-75% of the girls are identifying as non-binary?!

Those numbers don't seem right OP but if they are I think you should speak in confidence to Safe Schools Alliance and get them to trigger an Ofsted visit because that is a huge safeguarding red flag.
Seriously.

There's got to be some misunderstanding at at play here?

I'd personally go and speak to the school to try to understand the incongruence between her medically important referral form (hence your extreme interest in its accuracy) and the direct conversations with your DD. Explain you are supportive and don't actually mind what she identities as, but it's important to provide the correct referral for therapy.

the tutor who is a maths teacher asked her how she wanted her gender entered on the senior maths challenge today

Sadly even the UKMT now ask for gender and offer 4 options: male, female, other and prefer not to say.

Mathematicians are supposed to be rational and analytical!