"Thinspo and gender goals" - detrans analysis of online cultures

[WarriorN]

I found this a really interesting article.

Obviously it's well known that the impact of online content and social media is often more damaging for girls.

hormonehangover.substack.com/p/thinspo-and-gender-goals

By Grace, a vocal detransitioned woman who can be found on twitter.

twitter.com/hormonehangover/status/1454823681390166019?s=21

Very interesting and thoughtful article - sorry for what author has been through.

I've been thinking about ana/dysphoria connection - given sadly how many kids seem to have dived deep into one or the other during the pandemic. It's interesting because both are ways of trying to control life and of course COVID made control of life even more out of reach for adolescents as a time when they want to start asserting it. I know three people whose kids have needed hospitalisation due to eating disorders (2 girls, 1 boy) all around the age of my oldest (13).... who has declared themselves non-binary (she/her/they/them).

Fortunately they are not dysphoric and I think not likely to become so - I breathed an inner sigh of relief the other day when they said they weren't sure if they were she or they, but they're sure they're not 'he' and also that they have no interest in physically changing themselves and their happy with their body. Because I do know what starts as 'I'm gender-fluid/NB' can gradually change to 'I hate my boobs' and/or 'I'm a boy'. Now I've kept an open channel of communication with DC, told them my view that I think to fight gender constructs (as I think a lot of these NB kids feel they're doing) it's better to 'own' your birth sex and say 'I can be a man/woman however I want' and so on, and they'll come to whatever conclusions they come to, but I hope they'll stay away from dysphoria. I might well show them this article and discuss that they should stay away from 'dysphoria' tiktok, as it may have some cute kids, but it can make harmful behaviour look 'cute' - they are rightfully horrified by the idea of pro-ana sites, so I think this bears some sensitive discussion.

Writer also makes a very good point that some of these fluid or trans boys don't want to be men - they want to be pretty, skinny boys. It makes me think of something I reflected on - that I don't imagine many trans boys in mixed schools want to use the boys' toilets. They want a certain aspect of 'being a boy', but not all of it.

Thanks for sharing this, a very well written article. Many people have pointed out the links with other disorders and the ‘social contagion’ aspect, but this gave a very fresh perspective (for me at least). I was aware of the pro-ana stuff when I was younger but i never really looked closely at it. Very interesting parallels in the culture and aesthetic. Also interesting to hear about the anime influence for young girls too. I still haven’t read Abigail Shriers book, but I’ve been looking at the ftm culture (at least the youth element) more recently, and there’s so much going on here. Absolute tragedy unfolding for this generation I fear.

I think the anime and slash fan fiction and fan art influence on this trend is big, and hasn't really been examined much. So many of these girls don't come across as wanting to be ordinary heterosexual, bloke-in-B&Q type men: they want to be sweet, androgynous anime-style boys in idealised, fantasy gay relationships. There's a great thread on Ovarit, 'the Fandom-to-Trans/Yaoi-to-Trans pipeline' that's a very interesting read.

"Writer also makes a very good point that some of these fluid or trans boys don't want to be men - they want to be pretty, skinny boys."

Not read the article, but that makes me think that it's about girls trying to opt out of womanhood... but not just because they don't want to face the problems and expectations women face, but also because they don't want to be adults full stop.

So dangerous for a teenage girl, with her higher percentage of fat storage, to try to imitate the skinniness of an underweight boy

IvyTwines2 Anime and slash are definitely big influences. I've seen young women on twitter write things such as "I just realised that the reason I like gay bishounen (pretty anime boys) so much is because I AM one, and I'm gay."

I've been thinking about some more of what the writer says and how, quite often trans women will talk about wanting to be 'feminine' and 'soft', yet I don't think one ever hears trans men talking about wanting to be 'big' and 'strong' and 'hairy' or whatever. And it's fascinating and sad that some of these kids are projecting what is essentially a female gender stereotype ('I want to be a skinny litle boy protected by a big, strong boyfriend'), so they're not actually breaking away from those at all.

I should state I totally believe some people are trans and this is not to doubt anyone's intentions or feelings, but I just find it interesting, these different approaches.

The fixation on anime-boi types also speaks to the short-sightedness of many of these young trans boys. They want to look a certain way now or soon. They're not considering do they want kids, impact on future health and so on. I do believe the vast, vast majority of kids who are not genuinely trans will back off from it way before any medical intervention, but I fear there will be a small number who could pay a high price for what's essentially a passing feeling of adolescent insecurity

I found this a fascinating and concerning piece.

Echo, it's also tapping into the new, just as problematic, Non Binary craze, where they take PBs and get mastectomies and basically remain looking like children.

I've posted this so many times before; it's disturbing how she's gone through many "identities" as teens in the past went through bands and clothing styles. Or tattoos or piercings.

Grace's article details a badge like collection of dates, eg "hysto" etc.

I see this whole article as a form of self harm.

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2019/05/234065/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

This is a difficulty with talking to kids about gender identity in the way we are now, it's interesting that my DC has said 'I never really felt my gender' but I do want to talk to them about the fact that generally people don't feel a consciousness of their gender. TBH I think not 'feeling your gender' is what is to be a cis-gendered person - it's when there is a strong feeling that something is up where someone could be trans. I have spoken to them about the fact that their generation is the first to see things so strongly through the lens of 'gender' and some things that are normal adolescent feelings (not being sure of/liking who you are, not liking how your body is changing) as evidence of an issue with their innate self. I think one can and probably teach kids about transgender people, but in terms of 'a small number of people need to live as the opposite of their birth sex', not 'OMG, sex and gender is so unknowable and anyone might be anything' because, much as I hate the expression, I think it does 'confuse' matters to some extent before kids are old enough to really think through the implications.