LGBTQ training at work

[BrassyLocks]

Does anyone know anything about the Diversity Trust? They're providing training in LGBTQ+ awareness, and I'd like to know more about their stance in advance of the training so I can prepare some questions. Anyone have any experience with this organisation?

sorry can't help, just bumping till someone more knowledgeable comes along.

Can you just say no... I’m so fed up of this trained now.

‘Not having it - gay family members, have been fully aware of ‘gay people’ since the early 70s. Spent formative years in gay clubs, met many a transsexual. Aware of the bigotry that was around back in the day - and the resurgence of it now, possible due to the driving force of such training... So no thanks.’ Then I’d ask what they were doing for disability awareness and accessibility issues.

I'd rather go, otherwise I fear everyone might be swept along with the ideology without thinking the issues through. We're a small team, so this could have a significant impact. Then again, this organisation's training might have a perfectly reasonable and balanced approach (unlikely but possible).

True. I would sweetly ask when the disability training is happening? But they know that my sister is visually impaired and one of my bugbears is those flipping damgerois rainbow zebras...

Quick look at the website shows that they at least list the correct protected characteristics which is a start…

Yes I saw that too on their website, which is encouraging.

I'll definitely ask about disability training, as I don't recall that happening. Also, religious discrimination training - not even sure what that would be called? Muslim women need sex segregated restrooms - we all do, but there is a religious element to the Muslim woman needing it, so I'd be interested to hear how they address that.

I’d also ask the cost and the proposed learning outcomes/takeaways for staff (educational not goodies). Is your company stonewall affiliated?

Oh - Could it be to do with client expectations (do you have to complete forms when you pitch for work?)?

What always bothers me when I hear about this kind of training is this: Employers obviously have the right (and responsibility) to train their staff in skills they need for doing their job, and in how to comply with the company's policies and working methods. What they don't have a right to do is try to train people in what they should think or believe, or to try to influence their personal or political views.

Good luck OP - director of Diversity Trust has a long history of misogynist abuse and trying to shut down women meeting to discuss their rights:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

medium.com/@elsaegret/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

I think that now is very good time to raise the issue of training/awareness of staff and clients with disabilities. The Fiasco in Glasgow with the Israeli delegate unable to access the building was shameful.

I'm really shocked. I've messaged to find out who booked the training from this organisation, and depending on the reply will take it further. I couldn't see all of that Times article - is Maloney related to the Diversity Trust?

We're definitely not Stonewall affiliated. A segment of our business is public facing, so from that point of view the training is supposed to advise on how to interact with LGBTQ clients. I just fear there will be a bigger agenda. Those news links were awful

Don't think Maloney is connected to that org - Morgan is the Diversity Trust director:

'Cheryl Morgan, a trans activist from Bristol, described women who disagree with trans ideology as an “infestation” and referred to them by the insulting epithet “terf”. However, she was used by Avon and Somerset police to run “equality training”, including with cadets.
Last year, Avon and Somerset officers did not intervene when masked trans activists picketed a feminist meeting in Bristol, stopping women entering.'

Here's an archive of article:

archive.md/9rq81

@BrassyLocks

Yes I saw that too on their website, which is encouraging.

I'll definitely ask about disability training, as I don't recall that happening. Also, religious discrimination training - not even sure what that would be called? Muslim women need sex segregated restrooms - we all do, but there is a religious element to the Muslim woman needing it, so I'd be interested to hear how they address that.

Jewish women of the stricter leanings would also rely on single sex provision. One of the Canadian women who was harassed was I think Sikh, and the testimony was that she had restrictions around physical contact with males. The Catholic church has also issued teaching paper around 2018(?) which said that the trans ideology is against the teaching that 'we are in His image' so forcing a practising Catholic to use pronouns would be discrimination.

Tell them you have become aware of Ls who are on the receiving end Of abuse from the TQs, cite the names of Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix and others.

Then ask them how their diversity training assures respect for all.

@SolasAnla
Thanks for those facts, which I will include in my notes. The reason I gave Muslim women as an example is because of the requirement for 5 daily prayers, meaning a Muslim woman would need to uncover herself in the washroom, so it's more likely to be a problem for her than for other religious women. In a changing room at a swimming pool for example, the requirement would apply to a larger range of religious women. I'm trying to focus my thinking around our work context.

training is supposed to advise on how to interact with LGBTQ clients

Call clients by their name in meetings.

Use initials Jane Doe > JD or our client/service user rather than he/she in written communications.
This eliminates the possibility of complaints.

Employees provide a service on behalf of the employer therefore he/she/they are never appropriate. The only pronoun would be we (when writing on behalf of the org) or you plural/ named employee +initials from the client

Ditto if it's staff, professional courtesy but also gives a clear written record of who is responsible to action what.

If there is need to look at single sex provision to decide to exclude/include an individual from a service using initials rather than sex pronouns forces the responsible party making the decision to start by ask the relevant question around sex and work through the policy from a neutral position.
Decision trees using Y/N styles are easy to implement
Adding in a "Don't know ask manager" should trigger the question going back up the management chain.
This removes the ad-hoc element where 2 clients with the same issue are treated differently which is possible discrimination.

Having attended diversity and equality training on many occasions I have found them quite intolerant - one example where the LBGTQ issues were highlighted, the session was about equality for all yet neglected to included religion. On another occassion the trainer spoke and avidly about race rights , LBGTQ rights yet blasphemed throughout but highlighted islamophobia. On another occasion the trainer openly used the word biggot for anyone who voted for UKIP , whilst on another occasion the trainer spoke about views people held rather than thier actions - ie no-one was allowed a view that wasn't the current agenda that they were highlighting.

I agree that we should treat people equally and not discriminate - but that applies to all aspects including religion and political views. What is more people are allowed different views - a firm pays people to act in a certain way, what people think is up to them.

[quote BrassyLocks]@SolasAnla
Thanks for those facts, which I will include in my notes. The reason I gave Muslim women as an example is because of the requirement for 5 daily prayers, meaning a Muslim woman would need to uncover herself in the washroom, so it's more likely to be a problem for her than for other religious women. In a changing room at a swimming pool for example, the requirement would apply to a larger range of religious women. I'm trying to focus my thinking around our work context.[/quote]
I wouldn't use that as an example: Muslim women aren't required to pray and the ritual washing is of the feet, hands and face.

A Muslim woman may need to adjust her head scarf though.

If they talk about preferred pronouns / gender identities / gender neutral spaces being LGBTQ friendly, maybe ask how they’re friendly to the L? Far too often LGBTQ just means T.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

I wouldn't use that as an example: Muslim women aren't required to pray and the ritual washing is of the feet, hands and face.

Muslim women are required to pray 5 times a day, just like Muslim men. The washing is not just face hands and feet, but arms too and wiping over the hair. So some degree of undressing will be necessary.

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

If they talk about preferred pronouns / gender identities / gender neutral spaces being LGBTQ friendly, maybe ask how they’re friendly to the L? Far too often LGBTQ just means T.

Good point, but what kind of answer would I be looking for? I mean, how would they show that they are lesbian friendly?

@BrassyLocks

I'd rather go, otherwise I fear everyone might be swept along with the ideology without thinking the issues through. We're a small team, so this could have a significant impact. Then again, this organisation's training might have a perfectly reasonable and balanced approach (unlikely but possible).

Definitely go.

Depending on how strong your views are and how brave you are.

There is some commentary around things like pronouns etc, which argue that it is not just compelled speech, but actually goes against human right of freedom of belief and freedom to express that belief.

Nevertheless, persistent/deliberate misgendering could (rightly IMO) be construed as harassment.

See here:

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/pronouns/

womansplaceuk.org/2021/06/27/share-pronouns-at-work/

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/07/27/misgendering-and-harassment/

[quote BrassyLocks]@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

If they talk about preferred pronouns / gender identities / gender neutral spaces being LGBTQ friendly, maybe ask how they’re friendly to the L? Far too often LGBTQ just means T.

Good point, but what kind of answer would I be looking for? I mean, how would they show that they are lesbian friendly?[/quote]
Also good point. Not with bloody rainbow lanyards!