Challenging no single sex toilets at work

[fairymouse]

My office is having a refurbishment and this includes all gender neutral toilets. My workplace is horrible for this stuff and generally I just disengage but this is rumbling around in my mind.

I can't risk my job, but I do feel I should raise this with the chief executive.

I am thinking if sending an email asking if there will be a single sex women only set of toilets available , and explaining that as a survivor of DV, I am unable to use gender neutral toilets unless they are individual disabled style toilets .

Thoughts would be welcome !

Maybe ask why they are putting them in in the first place? What is wrong with single sex? Did people complain about single sex before? Has anyone asked for mixed sex now? Have the staff been asked their views? Point out women generally hate them in your experience and men do to. Ask if you can run a consultation of all staff to canvass views. And if they say no, ask why not?

That's not great
We have individual cubicles (straight off a main hallway), floor to ceiling with hand dryer/basin/mirror/sanitary disposal in each and they are labelled as single sex
The women's has sanitary products, hand cream, deo etc in too

Would add to pp's very good suggestions:

Has any survey been done of the staff?

What percentage of staff are enthusiastic about or even basically able to use mixed sex facilities?

What proportion of facilities should be mixed sex and what should remain single sex to reflect employee need and diversity?

Because there's no point in retaining two female only loos in a basement somewhere if 35 female staff will be needing to take time away from their desk and walk down there to queue to use them.

Equality Impact Assessment. Also a good tool to use.

Went to a university open day recently where there was a row of self-contained loos opening onto a main corridor. Gender neutral. No issue from a single sex point of view (I get though what some have said on safety floor ceiling etc.) as privacy was good but they were a bit less clean than women only. the most noticeable thing though was the queue. It was full of men - being an open day there were a lot of Dads - as well as women. Women queue all the time but these men had probably never had to queue for a pee in their lives before. Snd because you use the loo, then the sink, then the dryer, plus any other colostomy bag emptying/ sanitary towel fixing / lipstick applying / hair fixing or whatever before you leave meaning one person can be ages in a cubical.

This is longer than when someone comes out of the loo to use the sink in a communal sink/mirrors/dryers area (women only hopefully) when much of this post-loo stuff is done out the cubical at the row of sinks.

So everyone waited longer, women and men. And I wonder if men at your place of work find they have to wait longer if there'll be sudden changes in policy once the toilets OP mentions have been built. A hasty row of urinals on one of those corridors by the 3 cubicles the OP mentions? suddenly a Men's sign slapped on that unit and the others all being gender neutral, meaning women miss out on a women's only space?

Maybe worth asking if they have considered the time factor.

Especially if faced with this anywhere were breaks are a tight, fixed time (schools for example).

@NoToast

I've climbed over a toilet stall to get to someone unconscious and unlock the door. Couldn't do that with floor to ceiling cubicles so for me they are a no every single time. Totally unsafe unless you can easily unlock them from outside, in which case....

Interesting, given most disabled toilets are self-contained rooms with no gap. Do you also believe those to be inherently unsafe?

Yes, disabled toilets are obviously less safe because someone who has collapsed cannot be seen or reached. This is in part why disabled loos have emergency call cords.

@Artichokeleaves

Yes, disabled toilets are obviously less safe because someone who has collapsed cannot be seen or reached. This is in part why disabled loos have emergency call cords.

Was coming to say the same thing. There's an alarm in accessibility toilets. I'm taking a wild guess that there won't be in these enclosed cubicles in mixed sex toilets.

Any comment, @BlueberryCheezecake ? Wasn't quite the 'gotcha' you'd anticipated.

In addition to the mandatory emergency cords, it is also partially why single-occupancy accessible toilets are placed in a central location, to maximise the probability that someone will notice the door has been locked for a very long time, and realise help is needed.

I actually like the self contained cubicles and dont mind them being mixed sex but i think the location is really important and in a little room of their own or down a dead end small corridor wouldnt be a safe feeling. I also agree that safeguarding against being filmed or photgraphed is important.

But what is wrong with single sex toilets. ?

Are women and men shouting for unisex toilets ?

Can’t they just have one unisex toilet.

Then the people that need the unisex one can go there

If they are completely independent cubicles I think you would find it difficult to argue but i would still raise

This does not seem to be the case here. This appears to be a toilet block accessed through a door from a public area. Beyond this door is a series of cubicles divided by partitions but with doors floor to ceiling and a wash basin within the cubicle. This is not a single use facility.

@Elephantsparade

I actually like the self contained cubicles and dont mind them being mixed sex but i think the location is really important and in a little room of their own or down a dead end small corridor wouldnt be a safe feeling. I also agree that safeguarding against being filmed or photgraphed is important.

And how do you propose safeguarding against hidden cameras should be implemented?

Until safeguarding against cameras is implemented, no toilets should be mixed sex.

@Seainasive

As long as the new toilets have proper floor to ceiling walls and doors, and are completely self contained (include hand washing and drying facilities) this is perfectly legal. And I don’t really understand the problem with them?

I guess posters on here are concerned about different things but for me the concern is that men can't seem to keep urine in the toilet. It goes everywhere. I've been in some toilets where I've had to roll my trouser legs up.

@334bu yes that's exactly what they are . So when you come out the toilet cubicle, you're in another room before you go out into the corridor . And the toilet sign is on the outside of that door so therefore the 'toilet' is the entirety of the cubicles plus main room

Lots of useful answers here already, but on a related (yet separate) note, you could (innocently) enquire about the facilities available to breastfeeding employees (e.g. to express milk.)
These should NOT be toilets. But lack of such specific provision would strengthen any potential sex discrimination case.

Also look into things (mentioned by others already) such as sanitary bins (are they provided in all the loos? otherwise, not truly mixed sex. And bear in mind these bins cost money to empty, so management may be tempted to only have half of them, or even none!), and do raise health and safety aspects. More angles = better.
Your specific (mental health/disability related) is obviously also valid, and should be accounted for.
Remind them of their duty as an employer to consider all characteristics under the Equality Act (+ general duty of care towards the safety and well being of all their employees)

For someone who has experienced male violence, I find the issue for me is being in a small space behind a closed door with a man I don't know. All the other risk elements are pertinent though so I will write an email encompassing risk/law/plus the discrimination towards me as someone who has experienced dv.

It's hard to assess how this will affect my role, but I'm not after promotion, I just want to keep my job. I think I'm definitely in the minority, it's pronoun mad at my work .

I want to mention my own past because it makes me mad that this is just ignored , I'm sure there are more women in my large workplace who have experienced dv than there are men who want to be women.

@DogsWithJobs I dont have proposals. Im givining my views that those are the key points against the toilet proposals the OP has described as even someone who quite like cubicles with their own sink in and doesnt particularly mind sharing them in with men in theory can see these are significant issues.
Id rather expect any organisation asked to provide a risk assessment for female safety in particular the location and use of cameras would struggle somewhat and change their mind.

Some small points:

• changing facilities - do you have places to dress if you have an accident or evening work do to go to? Applies to men and women. I wouldn’t want to change in a small cubicle where I’d be brushing against the toilet.

• Size of cubicle. Especially once you add in sink and sanitary bin. I hate toilets where the san bin is rammed up to the side of the toilet with no room to sit without touching it. Grim.

• are the loos to be used by visitors who might bring children? Are there larger, separate loos for them?

If they are floor to ceiling with contained hand basins I can't see the problem. Yes you might meet a random man outside, but you also might meet him in the kitchen or the lift.

@amylou8 but I don't have to use the lift (and is different as the doors open regularly !). The kitchen is open. And again, I don't have to use it .

But thanks for the empathy

The problem is this liminal space - the semi-private, semi-public area between the cubicles and the wider office.

That is creepy. Why does someone having to access (or wait) for the toilet wait in such a space? Why are you giving men a semi-concealed space to lurk outside toilets women are using?

I find it creepy, and I'm a man. I wouldn't feel comfortable queuing in such a space waiting for a woman to come out.

There should be a clear division between the single-sex private spaces and open public areas.

I don't understand even what the positive of this area is supposed to be. It would surely be improved greatly simply by removing the door? Still not ideal, but better as people can easily see into the mixed-sex area.

I object to using mixed sex toilets because most men stand up to piss and they piss all over the floor.
That’s all!