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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

University of Edinburgh

54 replies

Maskless · 04/11/2021 09:05

From Shereen Benjamin, who teaches at the University of Edinburgh, on the repercussions of holding views critical of gender identity ideology:

"It feels like very dangerous territory indeed, and marks a new phase in what's already becoming a dystopic nightmare in many universities.

Where I am, University of Edinburgh, gender identity ideology is taught in many disciplines as unassailable truth. As one of the few academics who refuses to teach it in that way, I have the Staff Pride Network tailing all my lectures and publications and 'reporting' me to my head of school and to editors of collections I've published in.

I'm in my 50s, I'm a pretty middle-ranking and unexceptional senior lecturer, I've got as far as I'm ever going to get, so I can take the hit. And there's been quite some hit - I've been quietly dropped from teaching gender and education which is one of my specialisms, and put on to other non-specialist things like teaching research methods, because it's too much trouble to have me teaching about gender. I should say, when I do teach about gender and education, it's in the most neutral way possible: I explain that there are different ways to think about sex and gender, and (in a school of education) I explain the different implications of those ways of thinking for what happens in schools, and I encourage students to engage with the evidence and come to their own defensible positions. This, I'm told, is 'denying trans existence' and it makes trans students and their allies feel 'incredibly unsafe'.

Most academics are now younger than me. They might be seeking promotion, or their first permanent contract (because academics are now on precarious contracts for years if not decades). In that position, they have to toe the line and teach gender identity ideology as dogma, or teach and research something else. And give those of us known to be critical a very wide berth - I have colleagues who won't be seen with me on campus in case they're targeted by association.

We're getting to the point where an ideology which doesn't have much of an evidence base is being promoted as unassailable truth on university campuses. Universities should be the places where new ideologies can be robustly examined in teaching, research and public engagement. Instead, universities are turning into the engine rooms of gender identity ideology, promoting to the next generation that the ideology is beyond question, and that there are indeed some views that can't be questioned. I find this very, very scary.

Kathleen's resignation will embolden the bullies. I say that not as any criticism of Kathleen - she's faced three years of this now, always with dignity and immense courage, and I have nothing but admiration for her. What should now happen is that managers in other universities known to have a problem - and mine certainly know we have a problem - face up to it, cut their ties with Stonewall and Advance HE, and act to protect feminist academics from harassment rather than trot out warm words about how much they value academic freedom whilst giving bullies free rein to bully. But I can't see that happening.

What should also happen is that UCU wakes up to its responsibilities to protect academic freedom, and the employment rights of feminist academics. That's not about to happen either. Dangerous territory indeed."

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 04/11/2021 12:53

One of my siblings attended a mixed sex school at a time when it wasn't the 'done thing' for anyone there to do A levels, never mind in science.

She used to rock up to her science lessons to find:

[Her name] and [the name of the other girl with the temerity to study science] eat PAL

and such written on the blackboard. The teachers didn't say anything. As far as I know none of the fellow pupils were ever spoken to about this, far less reprimanded or discouraged.

I've been in workplaces where it was accepted that the men could: tape up official notices on the staffroom door about how they'd like to handle the software of the 3 female staff members; leave obscene notes in our pigeonholes; exclude us from consideration for tenured positions. How many of us have had jobs where indecent assault/harassment was taken as part of the job? Look at the recent report about the number of times a day nurses are sexually/indecently assaulted/harassed in the course of exercising their duties.

I wonder if some people have any idea what women have been expected to accept as the default and what it means to be in an unsafe workplace where the powerful have no regard for your safety and no intention of having your back?

candycane222 · 04/11/2021 12:54

Thanks to @OvaHere @GoodieMoomin and others. Im certainly not suggesting there aren't many real threats out there (not that I think anyone has suggested I did say that.) But the repetition of "we feel unsafe" as a demand to close down discussion does seem to be misused. But anyway we should be talking about Edinburgh here - ...

TalkingFeminism · 04/11/2021 13:20

@candycane222

I am sure that many trans people feel unsafe for similar reasons that other marginalised groups feel unsafe - because they face discrimination, violence, judgment, loss of family/friends when they come out, etc.

The problem arises when feeling 'safe' requires other people to not just respect beliefs about gender ideology but to share them. At an individual level, I'll do my best to learn pronouns, not dead-name someone, treat them as an honorary woman/man as appropriate, etc. I can also understand that for some people, gender identity is a useful and liberating concept. I don't share that view for many reasons, and so my main point of debate is how to deal with the conflict between a sex-based and gender-based approach, especially given attempts to elevate gender identity to a protected characteristic in equality law. If that makes someone feel 'unsafe' - and makes me akin to the bigoted thug who'd happily beat up a trans person into a pulp - then we have a big problem, because that means we cannot have a discussion.

It also struck me that Shereen spoke of presenting her material on gender as neutrally as possible and encouraging students to make up their own minds - and even that isn't good enough! FFS, it really does feel like one side of the debate is trying to engage in good faith and respectfully and in a way that understands the complexities and nuances of the situation, whilst the others main argument is in essence, "if you don't agree with us then you're a bigot". This is completely antithetical to the academic method that universities are meant to be about!

SusannaRowan · 04/11/2021 13:24

Sorry, can't link...

University of Edinburgh
EishetChayil · 04/11/2021 13:26

The UCU are a bloody joke. I'm an ardent trade unionist but I'm honestly this close to cancelling my membership.

Keyboardkaterina · 04/11/2021 13:40

I remember the Edinburgh 7 celebrations as I worked at the university at the time. Lots of self congratulatory guff about how backward we were then and how far we’ve come! I sat there thinking, no we haven’t. Different century, same misogynistic hate filled silencing and bullying of women.

RoyalCorgi · 04/11/2021 13:44

Can any of you academics answer a question that's been baffling me?

Why has Times Higher Education been so quiet on this issue? It's a huge story in the national press yet they've almost totally ignored it. They grudgingly did something on Kathleen Stock the other day when they really had no other option but otherwise they're just not covering it.

candycane222 · 04/11/2021 14:48

Thanks @TalkingFeminism - helpful post

morningtoncrescent62 · 04/11/2021 14:59

This pile of misogynist pish is from the branch president of UCU Edinburgh. He compares Kathleen Stock (without, apparently, needing to refer to anything she's said which going by the standard of his 'argument' he wouldn't understand anyway) with a pro-paedophile racist to make the case that the union should have wanted her sacked.

www.rs21.org.uk/2021/11/02/when-is-it-right-for-a-union-to-support-dismissal/

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 15:46

It's religious fundamentalism or a medieval theocracy run by TRA's silencing political opponents.

ChloeCrocodile · 04/11/2021 15:49

The problem arises when feeling 'safe' requires other people to not just respect beliefs about gender ideology but to share them.

No reasonable Catholic person would claim to feel unsafe simply because a lecturer said "I don't believe in transubstantiation" or referred to the consecrated host as "wafer" rather than "body of Christ". And universities hopefully would recognise that any claim to feel unsafe in such circumstances would be ridiculous.

What is frustrating about gender ideology is that so many institutions seem to have accepted it as fact rather than recognising it as a belief.

CharlieParley · 04/11/2021 15:54

That Shereen is shackled in this way at work is a real loss to students. She has a brilliant mind and decades of experience in education, and a lot of experience as a feminist, a gay rights campaigner and a trade unionist.

I often wonder how a movement can consider itself progressive that declares as enemies people like Shereen. She is not hateful or intolerant. I've seen her reaching out to the same students who harass her, hoping that one day they will be able to have a respectful discussion, and she still hasn't given up.

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:04

@EishetChayil

The UCU are a bloody joke. I'm an ardent trade unionist but I'm honestly this close to cancelling my membership.
People in the audience of the Academic session at Filia asked "why not set up our own union?" so I hope this progresses
dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 04/11/2021 16:04

@EishetChayil

The UCU are a bloody joke. I'm an ardent trade unionist but I'm honestly this close to cancelling my membership.
I am baffled that a Trade Union (compare how a defence lawyer acts) don't see that their member's (deliberately singular) views are neither here nor there; neither right nor wrong; the member has paid their Union subs over many years to be represented, should they incur a workplace related issue/problem and to negotiate pay and conditions on their behalf. Gender Ideology has nothing to do with any of it and it is no surprise the Trade Unions are struggling to get members if they take this partisan approach. All members will not agree on all issues and neither should they. To make it even worse the current TUC leader is female I think. Women complicit in their own erasure...what the hell is wrong with them?

My father would be turning in his grave, had he not been cremated lol to think that a British Trade Union would not represent fairly all their female and male members' interests.

MidsomerMurmurs · 04/11/2021 16:30

@EishetChayil

The UCU are a bloody joke. I'm an ardent trade unionist but I'm honestly this close to cancelling my membership.
Do it. I did earlier this year. Nothing since has made me regret it.
FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:36

This is the UCU head who issued that statement about Kathleen Stock.
www.ucu.org.uk/jogrady

KS said the UCU person who told her didn't agree with the statement but didn't speak up. So it sounds like this person will cancel anyone in UCU who disagrees with gender identity ideology

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:53

UCU position on trans inclusion

(my bold)

UCU has a long history (from predecessor unions) of enabling members to self-identify whether that is being black, disabled, LGBT+ or women. At recent Congress’ and further and higher education conferences, policy has been made on more options than binary genders on forms (FE conference 2017), using the acronym LGBT+ to ensure an inclusive approach to gender identities which is different to that assigned at birth and/or their sexual identity being other than heterosexual (Congress 2017), gender-neutral toilets and facilities (Congress 2017), support campaigns to remove the requirement and practice of gender assignment at birth (Congress 2017), promotion of non heteronormative and non binary identities (FE conference 2014).

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:55

to self-identify whether that is being black, disabled, LGBT+ or women

What does the UCU mean by this? identify as a different race?

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 16:58

So the UCU change started before the UCU 2014 conference. 2014 was when Stonewall was in the process of being captured.

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 17:00

UCU head Jo Grady uses T*RF blocker on twitter to not see feminist tweets

FindTheTruth · 04/11/2021 17:22

UCU Holly Smith is publicly speaking up for women and KS ❤️
twitter.com/hollysmithhere/status/1455917696361582595

LobsterNapkin · 04/11/2021 19:41

I guess rather than some sort of projection, I tend to see claims of feeling unsafe as most often manipulative.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2021 00:15

to self-identify whether that is being black, disabled, LGBT+ or women

Why don't they mention men?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 05/11/2021 08:00

Or identifying as being white! Odd.

MidsomerMurmurs · 05/11/2021 08:15

Well UCU’s Gen Sec identifies as a trade unionist, so…

I see she’s planning to cosplay as a workers’ revolutionary again soon. (Won’t be happening at my workplace though, as below the 50% turnout).

This tweet hits the nail on the head:

@ScotReSisters
The last strike was pointless, it achieved nothing, and many staff just ignored it and worked as usual. That will happen again. The Grady Bunch enjoy striking, they are privileged and can afford to. It's a game for them.

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