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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article about JK Rowling in The New European

41 replies

HPFA · 02/11/2021 14:32

Very good, fair, balanced article here:

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/jk-rowling-trans-culture-war/

It's quite noticeable how mainstream "Liberal Remainer" types (I include myself in that description) are now coming onside - Ian Dunt doing a joint event with Julie Bindel being another example.

And for anyone tempted to say "where were they before" part of being a successful political movement is always being welcoming to latecomers!

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 02/11/2021 14:38

Wow, that's actually a factual, sensibly-written article. Thanks OP!

SquishySquirmy · 02/11/2021 14:43

That is an excellent article, and good to see it in the New European.

colouringindoors · 02/11/2021 15:02

Excellent article.

SquishySquirmy · 02/11/2021 15:59

Is the JK Rowling article their cover story? Shock (or does it just look like that to me because of algorithms and the cookies on my phone??)
I noticed they also have an opinion piece on the Dave Chappelle controversy!

Helleofabore · 02/11/2021 16:01

Go Sarah! Good to see her getting more articles out there.

FindTheTruth · 02/11/2021 16:06

The last 3 paragraphs are very good

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 02/11/2021 16:13

Excellent article.

Rowling’s beliefs are that sex is real, that male violence is a problem, that women should be able to talk about themselves in clear language, and that no woman should lose her job for expressing such opinions. No critics have convincingly explained why believing these things hurts trans people

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/11/2021 17:33

@SquishySquirmy

That is an excellent article, and good to see it in the New European.
I'm unfamiliar with the New European. What sort of publication is it politically, what demographic does it reach? Thanks in advance.
SquishySquirmy · 02/11/2021 17:50

WhereYouLeftit
It's a publication set up after the Brexit vote by Remainers. Obviously not neutral regarding leave/remain, but it has never pretended to be. Generally left of centre/liberal, but moderate (eg, not singing Corbyn's praises and also very critical of Johnson).
I am not sure if it has a print version, may be just online now.
I assume its reach is fairly limited compared to the big publications, but the editors and contributors etc are well connected politically and with the media. Not sure of exact demographic, but I would hazard a guess that many readers are 30yrs old to 50s, and also typically middle-class-ish, urban, London, centre left, professional, types. Just a generalisation though and my assumptions may be wrong. But its readers will include people who wouldn't read (for example) the Spectator or the Daily Mail.

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/11/2021 17:54

Thanks Squishy.

verymiddleaged · 02/11/2021 17:56

I think Alastair Campbell has written for them in the past as an example.

BraveBananaBadge · 02/11/2021 18:00

It still has a print edition as far as I know. It was only supposed to run for a few weeks after the Brexit vote but was so successful it's still going. This is a great piece from Sarah again.

teawamutu · 02/11/2021 18:17

Really excellent piece. Reflects, I suspect, the view of many.

I took a deep breath when I mentioned JKR at a book group meeting last week. Four women there; one has read Helen Joyce's book and thinks if that's transphobic, we all are; three who had no idea what Kathleen Stock was supposed to have said and were nonplussed that anyone would say sex doesn't matter and women need their own stuff.

Thanks to the Guardian and BBC they'd no idea what was happening...

Doomscrolling · 02/11/2021 18:17

Sarah Ditun’s written extensively on this and is always clear, measured and reasonable.

dryroastcumin · 02/11/2021 18:54

What Squishy said. It tends to longer articles and analysis with much more European context than the rest of our rather parochial media. Really interesting stuff on art, cinema etc and some good cartoons. I subscribe to the print edition and find it much meatier than the Guardian. The style reminds me a bit of the Observer in the olden days before the invention of colour supplements. I think having the rather lovely picture of JKR on the front page is an interesting development.

ModMajGeneral · 02/11/2021 19:00

Liberal Remainer types were absolutely the problem - too convinced of their own rightness to listen to the issues. So yeah, I welcome it but Ian Dunt is still a bit of a tit.

Mochudubh · 02/11/2021 19:00

What a good article. It explains the issue in clear, simple terms without indulging in emotive language.

Gingercake2018 · 02/11/2021 19:02

@HPFA

Liberal remainers?!

I voted remain and have never felt comfortable with the concept of "changing sex" even before I new the term gender critical existed and discovered Mumsnet FWR. This has nothing to do with people's views on Brexit and crosses all sorts of political and religious divides.

SquishySquirmy · 02/11/2021 19:13

I'm a liberal remainer!
I still agree with some ardent brexiteers on some issues.
And I disagree with some remainers on some issues.

That's the problem with trying to divide everyone up into 2 neat tribes. There are those who are trying to stoke up a "culture war" and (like all wars) there is a small number on both sides who have an interest in and will benefit from a "war" split along artificial, simplistic lines.
Most of us will lose, though.

PickAChew · 02/11/2021 19:35

Also a Liberal remainer type.

Maybe in social media echo chambers, unrelated issues like these might be concurrent layers in all the noise but plenty of us are capable of forming a thought of our own, modmaj

TheElementsSong · 02/11/2021 20:54

Also a liberal Remainer type.

DdraigGoch · 02/11/2021 22:59

[quote Gingercake2018]@HPFA

Liberal remainers?!

I voted remain and have never felt comfortable with the concept of "changing sex" even before I new the term gender critical existed and discovered Mumsnet FWR. This has nothing to do with people's views on Brexit and crosses all sorts of political and religious divides.[/quote]
Even so, it's a crucial demographic to convince so the point is not wrong. 49% of Remain voters believe TWAW, compared with 32% of Leave voters.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/16/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

verymiddleaged · 02/11/2021 23:05

I am a liberal remainer type who used to be fully TWAW.
Well fully signed up to being kind anyway.

In the end my safeguarding concerns and lack of enthusiasm for compelled speech pushed me out of that. But it took a while and Mumsnet to really make me think about it.

HereticFanjo · 02/11/2021 23:17

Good piece.

highame · 03/11/2021 09:01

Liberal Remainer here too but I was always concerned about my 'I'm right, and we are morally superior, so just vote remain' I have since realised that my love of democracy out-weights any of my other political views and I am now more considerate of Brexit views.

The idea of moral superiority is what has driven the TWAW debate. We are so used to being on the right side, that we had forgotten how to think critically. I'm glad of this debate and am hoping somewhere in the future our institutions will recognise that they did not do 'the maths' before jumping on the bandwagon. There are so many strands to this that we are joined with many and as already said, the tribal 2 party system fragments when put under this kind of strain

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