Detrans person confronts their "gender therapist"

[RightsHoardingStegasaurus]

Just that, really. It's a harrowing listen but very important

Really harrowing.

This is his story; This young person has had an awful lot of abuse and trauma. That no therapist from the age of 8, took this in to account is absolutely disgusting.

I'm also really struck by his description of worsening autoimmune conditions thanks to oestrogen, including thyroid, which his Gp denied. (I also had this denied to me as a young woman as I linked my hypothyroidism to going on and off the pill. I was later told it was a risk factor.)

Oral oestrogen absolutely does impact your system if you have pre existing hypothyroidism. I feel it's what brought my hypothyroidism on but I can't be 100% sure. And as auto immune issues are more common in women it makes sense that this is a serious risk factor for any male with the genetics that predispose them to these conditions if they take oral oestrogen?

I'm really dumbfounded that the medical community have allowed such harm through both poor therapy gatekeeping and medical gatekeeping.

I wonder if this can be submitted to gov for conversion therapy?

[quote RightsHoardingStegasaurus]Just that, really. It's a harrowing listen but very important

[/quote]

Jesus. The end. The DARVO from her, "you're being abusive" and then telling him she can't change him into someone else while also telling him she regularly helps people turn into something else.

The points in both videos made that the therapist has helped lots of trans people who are very happy v the idea he puts to her that many delusional people are quite happy, against his view now that he's been practising a form of self harm which they've enabled because of any ability to query 'the delusion' is very powerful and horrific.

That was distressing

Everything that is wrong with the whole trans ideology is here , distilled into a fifty minute hour .
That poor boy .

@WarriorN

The points in both videos made that the therapist has helped lots of trans people who are very happy v the idea he puts to her that many delusional people are quite happy, against his view now that he's been practising a form of self harm which they've enabled because of any ability to query 'the delusion' is very powerful and horrific.

The ideology as applied to unhappy people facilitates self-harm. If a person was unhappy because they were not allowed alcohol, would you facilitate their alcoholism? If a person was unhappy because they believed they were obese, would you facilitate the starving or purging? Why are they unhappy? Surely any therapists job is to help them work out the cause of their unhappiness and help them deal with that? Not just take what they say at face value and help them self-harm to meet it?

After listening to that I can only say that he truly is stunning and brave. I was completely taken aback by his honesty, and I sincerely hope that he manages to make a full recovery and that his health insurance covers removing the gynecomastia.

I really hope the therapist is able to reflect on what he said, and take it to heart. In an ideal world she would start looking into the few research studies done on the "success" of medicalised "transition" and perhaps go on to help repair some of the terrible damage she has been complicit in.

@FireFlyBoogaloo I fear you are spot on

How on earth did FireFlyBoogaloo's message violate any Talk guidelines? It was cynical, true, but anyone who has ever done any practice that requires reflective supervision would have recognised the truth in it.

The DARVO from her, "you're being abusive" and then telling him she can't change him into someone else while also telling him she regularly helps people turn into something else.

I wonder about the professional standards of some occupations and the ostensible lack of oversight.

Part of me feels she's also been a victim of the trans machine. She's had flawed training and fake information.

This awful situation he's experienced is exactly what Prof Michele Moore has been speaking about for years.

F

Heartbreaking. The contrast between the therapist's vacuous platitudes and her patient's desperation is chilling.

@WarriorN

Part of me feels she's also been a victim of the trans machine. She's had flawed training and fake information.

This awful situation he's experienced is exactly what Prof Michele Moore has been speaking about for years.

I felt that too. She was giving platitudes, but short of admitting that the entire enterprise was evil, there wasn’t much she could say. She probably isn’t allowed to admit wrongdoing without putting her insurance at risk and facing up to having damaged someone must take time to process. I didn’t listen to the end, so I didn’t hear her accusations that he was abusive, but she stayed calm and reflected stuff back at him for a good long time.

Whether she herself was evil, or another victim of the machine, I couldn’t tell. It appears that affirmation is absolutely the mainstream in the US. If she was trained in that, and had not seen any obvious harm, up until he presented it to her, then you might argue she ought to have checked all the studies, but there must be many people who learn how to do their job, but never really question the ethics around what they’re taught, and trust their teachers to be giving them solid information, based on sound evidence.

I would have hoped that experienced therapists, who had been trained earlier and told that the golden rule was never, ever to agree with a delusional patient, might have had alarm bells ringing when faced with the affirmation model, but as activists are so pleased to tell us, even the WHO and mainstream sources now state that “being trans” is a thing that exists and is not a mental illness. We don’t know either, whether she falls into that group or not.

Obviously she isn’t a victim in the same way he is, but she may still, in future, experience huge pain if it is discovered that what she has been doing is not helping people (presumably her aim in becoming a therapist) and indeed was doing the exact opposite.

Yes exactly Any. In one of the videos he says that he was the first client to ever mention agp to one of the therapists and they'd never heard of it.

I've also long felt the US have more of an issue re the insurance system, particularly for under 18s. Though afaik here it's fairly easy to get what you want when over 18 here.

I just love all the comments from the "qualified" therapists on here about someone who clearly needs therapeutic help.

Many trans people go through a lot of question, indeed detransitioning and retransitioning simply due to societal pressure to stay within whatever is determined as a "norm"

And it is true that is what therapists aim to do - let the patient find their way and explore in a safe space. NOT advise them not to do something or give a strong opinion - that is conversion therapy.

And it is true that is what therapists aim to do - let the patient find their way and explore in a safe space. NOT advise them not to do something or give a strong opinion - that is conversion therapy.

Alternatively, as the young man in the recording pointed out, it may turn out to have been a form of assisted harm. There are occasions when therapists should seek to intervene when their patient wants to pursue a pathway that will lead to harm.

But perhaps his lived experience is irrelevant to you.

simply due to societal pressure to stay within whatever is determined as a "norm"

Yet another person who's not actually listening to this young person.

None of his detransition was about that.

It was specifically health, infertility and worsening mental health issues.

He describes severe childhood physical abuse.

He recognises his gender dysphoria but that counsellors, not medically trained, unaware of any research around the area, thinks he therefore must transition despite the physical harm this is doing to him.

NOT advise them not to do something or give a strong opinion - that is conversion therapy.

Useful input for the consultation on the "conversion therapy" bill.

That there are activists who would define "conversion therapy" as "advising someone not to do something".

And that's what they want to be illegal?

It's quite clear that a non medical professional referring to endocrinologists for treatment is irresponsible.

I also thought that, Warrior. There is ultimately no doctor taking responsibility for checking whether the patient is ill and that’s unacceptable.

@NecessaryScene

NOT advise them not to do something or give a strong opinion - that is conversion therapy.

Useful input for the consultation on the "conversion therapy" bill.

That there are activists who would define "conversion therapy" as "advising someone not to do something".

And that's what they want to be illegal?

Very worrying.

Where are the safeguards to stop young people going down the wrong path?

I'm struck by similarities between this young person's experiences (and eloquence) and those of Sinead's (Watson) with some clear differences in terms of the cause of the driver; family abuse v male sexual abuse and desire to find safety in cross dressing, escaping extreme masculinity (?) verses escaping the impact on women of extreme masculinity.