Murder versus manslaughter

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

news.sky.com/story/penelope-jackson-woman-who-stabbed-husband-to-death-after-row-over-birthday-meal-found-guilty-of-murder-12444975

So she gets 18 years for murder after snapping following years of abuse.
Bloke in newspaper I was reading at work gets off with manslaughter for strangling a woman to death with a belt. Said she wanted him to strangle her - like hell she did.

Neither "showed remorse". Of course she wouldn't show remorse she'd been terrorised for years, she probably had no feeling left at all.

One rule for men and another for us - bloody disgusting.

I think the max terms etc are the same.

In general the inconsistency around so much with charges sentences etc just seems incomprehensible. I haven't read up on this particular case.

Current thread on Penelope Jackson: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4388166-Penelope-Jackson-jailed-for-18-years-for-murdering-husband

Penelope Jackson’s claimed she had been subjected to abuse, but the court found otherwise. She also admitted in court she had driven her 3rd husband to suicide.

Don’t know who you are referring to, but recent murder cases of men murdering women have actually resulted in similar sentences.

Ah. But if the man had an erection when he killed her and says it was consensual...

Then different story...

@NiceGerbil
I don’t think that having an erection and saying it was consensual has ever worked or would work as a defence for murder by stabbing with a kitchen knife.

Do we still believe you can drive people to suicide then?

Ffs.

@RJnomore1

Do we still believe you can drive people to suicide then?

Ffs.

Of course it is possible. This article looks at a few cases:

theconversation.com/encouraging-suicide-or-committing-manslaughter-106324

Unless I’m very wrong that’s a different thing. That’s coercive abise. This woman though her infidedility apparently drove her husband to suicide.

I don’t see anywhere saying she told him to go or told him it was time or whatever. I’m happy to be corrected as I have not read extensively but while an affair isn’t great it’s not coercion to kill yourself.

but didn't she agree with that statement during her evidence in chief, that she drove her 3rd husband to suicide.

And in relation to domestic abuse:

“Abuse victims of both sexes and various ages, to include elderly persons, have resorted to suicide. The National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) identified 10 such deaths among individuals 65 years of age or older and affected by domestic violence in the previous month.8 Data showed that intimate partner abuse played a role in 2,031 male and 439 female suicides across all age groups.9”. [2018, FBI article in US]

leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/intimate-partner-violence-a-pathway-to-suicide

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@NiceGerbil
I don’t think that having an erection and saying it was consensual has ever worked or would work as a defence for murder by stabbing with a kitchen knife.[/quote]
Well you thinking that doesn't make it true.

I mean normally I'd say well you're guessing and you know neither of us is going to go on a wild Google chase etc.

But I remember this case as it was in the news discussed a lot on here and not so long ago. So here you go-

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-45140580

Reading it I'm getting angry all over again FFS.

'A man has been jailed for six years for killing a woman he stabbed in the throat during a "bizarre and violent" sex game.

Jason Gaskell severed 21-year-old Laura Huteson's jugular vein and carotid artery with a knife while having sex at his home in Hull on 27 February.

Sheffield Crown Court heard the pair, who had only met earlier that day, had been drinking vodka and taking cocaine.

Gaskell, 24, of Mildane, Hull, pleaded guilty to a charge of manslaughter.'

'Jailing Gaskell, Judge Jeremy Richardson said: "In simple terms you unlawfully killed a woman with whom you were having sexual intercourse by stabbing her through the neck during bizarre and violent sadomasochistic sexual activity.

"You did not intend that to happen, but the danger of stabbing the victim was obvious, and it eventuated.'

'The judge said there was no suggestion the sex had been non-consensual.

"It appears you harboured a desire for, and regularly put into practice, a particularly extreme form of sexual activity in that you enjoyed sadomasochism whereby you held the throats of sexual partners very tightly and regularly used a knife in the midst of sexual congress, usually by holding it against the throat of a woman.

"You kept a knife under your pillow for that purpose," Judge Richardson said.'

Fucking WHAT? I mean it's preposterous.

Yes that case is preposterous. Agree it was a miscarriage of justice. He should have gotten convicted of murder and a life sentence.

It sadly happens sometimes that a murdering man or woman get off too lightly.

That's a quick turnaround!

Have you read the full judgement? Tried to consider all the facts? Miscarriage of justice is vv strong. Unduly lenient is usually used, not long enough etc.

You say that has never and would never happen.

And now you're still making sure to say women do it too and get off...

When did you last hear of a case the other way round? Consensual, knife, only just met. ? Out of interest.

@NiceGerbil

That's a quick turnaround!

Have you read the full judgement? Tried to consider all the facts? Miscarriage of justice is vv strong. Unduly lenient is usually used, not long enough etc.

You say that has never and would never happen.

And now you're still making sure to say women do it too and get off...

When did you last hear of a case the other way round? Consensual, knife, only just met. ? Out of interest.

There should not be a full judgement to read or any trial proceedings because I read that CPS originally charged him with murder, but then he plea bargained and they agreed to accept a guilty plea for manslaughter. This means he was never tried only sentenced..so there isn’t a judgement to read only the sentencing rationale.

@RJnomore1

Do we still believe you can drive people to suicide then?

Ffs.

If you can't drive people to suicide you can't drive them to murder either, so the point still stands.

Judges comments. Yes that. Read it?

Why is it so important to you to... Play devils advocate on these threads?

That never has and never would happen.

Ah. Well that's definitely bad women do it too don't forget.

Not read about the case or have example to have of this the other way around. Get pedantic about first and ignore second.

What's your bottom line opinion. On threads about law and men and women on feminism.

Is it that you find them biased? Think doubting the system is working for MVAWG is unfair?

Just not sure and would be interested to know your underlying views.

Sorry that was for plan ^.

@NiceGerbil
I have read about Penelope Jackson’s case. The jury of eight women and four men decided she was guilty of murder when presented with all the evidence. She was given a fair trial from what I can see. I have no reason to question the verdict.

The Gaskell case you brought up is one in which there was no trial, no jury, no presentation of evidence. His manslaughter conviction was purely through plea bargaining, which I personally think is a corrupt practice.

I don’t have a bottom line opinion on “threads about law and men and women on feminism”. I take each case on its own merits. I know no justice system is perfect and so I neither have complete faith in it nor complete disregard for it.

There are numerous threads on MN regarding the Penelope Jackson case and opinion is pretty evenly split, so I don’t think anyone is playing devils advocate here.

How do you mean no trial no evidence?
The piece I linked has comments from judge so something must have gone on.

If you take each case on its own merits then how did you conclude so quickly that the man in my link was guilty of murder and it was a miscarriage of justice?

@NiceGerbil

How do you mean no trial no evidence? The piece I linked has comments from judge so something must have gone on.

Sigh. Yes of course, “something” goes on. When a guilty plea is accepted by CPS there is no trial. Instead the defence gives information to the judge regarding any mitigating factors to take into account for sentencing. The judge then writes a summary of the case showing their rationale for the sentence they pass.

It was not the first time I had seen that case. It’s on the we can’t consent to this website. So your link jogged my memory..

In addition, I think plea bargaining is a corrupt practice usually causing miscarriage of justice. This man’s light sentence was a direct result of plea bargaining as CPS originally charged him with murder, but then accepted a guilty plea for manslaughter.