Algorithms and the sex/gender debate.

[LemonSwan]

I have been pondering this issue for a while about the generation divide on this issue (as someone who is not old - millennial myself).

Besides some outliers; it seems to be those who grew up with 24/7 social media on smartphones support gender over sex; and those who grew up with more moderate use of social media or older supporting a more middling nuanced view, or supporting sex over gender

With the recent news about Facebook/ Instagrams algorithms promoting posts which evoke controversy and rewarding those which invoke an angry face with 5 points and simple like with 1...

Is part of the problem that SM companies have trained our youngest generation to be rewarded for being perpetually angry and thus continuously striving to promote ever more extreme views, controversy and division?

I keep seeing people saying younger teens aren't as engaged with it as young adults, which is encouraging (but flies in the face of your theory). Of course it remains to be seen whether today's 13 year olds are still rolling their eyes at self ID when they're 18 and Very Earnestly Correct About Everything - generation effect vs life stage effect...

I think those born in the 00s are completely captured by it, but the 10s are more against it (maybe simply because it's the thing of the decade before them and they want to be different). Why, because I have heard the same as Nell about the young ones, and the bit older ones you can see for yourself on social media and tiktok how indoctrinated many are. And how completely lost they are and removed from reality.

Thats interesting you both say that about the 00s and younger being the opposite. I don't know any 10s kids so interesting and reassuring!

No they don't. I can't imagine that many 16yo boys fancy by gender not sex!

And the those shouting loudest are middle aged anyway!

I was born in ‘99 and I’m not captured! (anecdotal) But then, I’ve been obsessively reading MN since I was 14 so might not be representative.

The 10s kids are very young, I would imagine they don’t have many set opinions yet.

When I got pregnant with my first child (born in 2012) and was going through pregnancy and chose not to find out the sex until birth, I got really interested in what difference it really made anyway. I got into feminism, and learned about gender stereotypes and I remember reading Cordelia Fine's book, Delusions of Gender.

Anyway, at that point in time baby clothes were very strongly pink or blue, and toys were highly gendered too. Then we had more unisex scandi kids clothes become more readily available, there were campaigns for let toys be toys and let clothes be clothes etc.

I am wondering if the babies born in the decade prior grew up with gendered everything, and it felt much more real and salient to them. Whereas kids growing up in the 2010s have been allowed to be much more gender fluid (not as a woke label but just not as pressured into gender stereotypes). E.g. my son (born in 2012) has been able to have long hair and went through a phase of pink being his favourite colour and liking sparkly things, but we never told him that made him a girl or made it forbidden.

It struck me at the time that it was so odd for everything to be so gendered, when really the opportunities for women and acceptance of gay people was better than it had ever been.

I wonder if the idolisation of gender is a passing thing because they grew up in that environment? But of course, they'll go on to have their kids, and interpret their kids interests through that lens too, so I'm not saying that there isn't a danger that this ideology could persist. But I do just wonder if the move towards less gender stereotyping of the later 2010 kids will help innoculate them to taking it all so seriously?

I can't believe the number of women I work with and around in their 40-60s who believe the shite. Many are lesbians too.

There is an advantage to the advertising industry and hence social media to have people identify into a limited number of distinct groups, so yes I think they have something to do with it

And that would be consistent with more impressionable people , tends to be those with less life experience, therefore being influenced

Its interesting what you are saying Fukuraptor

I didnt know the 00s were are very gendered age. When I was young teens was early 00s and we had Avril Lavigne and the whole unisex skater bolt trousers or the tracksuit with the nike string bags and every one wore unisex trackies.

When I was younger (90s) I dont remember it being that gendered so I wonder what happened. We had cartoon disney mainly and the only 'princesses' I can remember were Pocahontas who was very cool and wore mainly beige and jumped off waterfalls.

I wonder what the trends and popular culture was in the 10s for older kids was (when the 00s were coming into teens) and whether that had an effect on gendering everything.

Sorry typo -

I didnt know the early 10s were are very gendered age*