Should we be careful what we wish for?

[Gosports]

I’m 100% GC and want to be pleased about the latest news, from the Times article published today (confused though it is) and the BBC article earlier this week as it feels like the tide might be turning.

However, I can’t help but wonder about the motives behind these small ripples of change. I don’t trust the government at all, and I wonder if this is a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire? They have also proposed to curb judicial review and to limit our rights to protest so I can’t believe that they are at all concerned for young people confused about their gender, or lesbians abused by trans women. So why are they (or appear to be) supporting the GC movement. It can only be to gain more power in some respect, surely? And that worries me…

That’s the conundrum - I don’t want to support the right wing! But as a pp said, that doesn’t mean I have to accept their ideology wholesale. But it’s difficult.

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Could you expand on what makes GC a conservative/right wing movement, @BlueberryCheezecake?

I think the cognitive dissonance is too high for some MNetters to concede even the possibility that some key members of the Conservative Party are indeed invested in women's rights.

That’s a bit uncalled for! The point of the post was to understand the issue better.

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Interesting take, Untrue though. The right wing would love nothing more than to put us all into gender stereotyped boxes, which should sound familiar because that is very close to the position of those in support of gender identity politics.

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Because only right-wingers believe in scientific reality? Whereas left-wingers are all biology-deniers? That can't be right, surely.

“Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement”

Which explains why the Communist party of Great Britain have aligned themselves with us

weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1363/orthodoxy-and-its-discontents/

For Blueberry.

& I have never kissed a tory - come on - surely these tribal lines are old hat now - I have voted either way - but it is true that the Conservative party stood up against self identification. It is documented. & i do not believe ( a family member knows one who ( Not Liz Truss ) spoke up in favour - she believes it - not doing it to get votes )

But when it comes to a vote - read everything and make your priorities. Self ID may not be one of those.

I don't understand this insistence that this party or that are standing up for women; none of them are.

Wasn't it Penny Mordaunt who said in the HOC that trans women are women? The Conservatives have been actively pushing this agenda - not just turning a blind eye but actually enabling it - and its been enthusiastically taken up by all the mainstream parties, who either don't understand equality law or don't think it should exist.

The 'GC' movement is cross party in the UK. It might not be so much so elsewhere, but it's not a right wing cabal here.

I hink there have been many atempts to link GC ideas and understanding with far right political or fundamentalist Christian thinking, but while that might play in the US, it doesn't here. I'm GC or GS, as I prefer to think of it (Gender Sensible) but have never voted Tory in my life and have always been on the left politically, and a second wave feminist since the late 60s/early 70s.

But now I feel politically homeless in the UK and depending on conversations with my MP and other candidates I may even be reduced to voting Tory at the next GE if my traditional choice fails me. Whether I will be able to bring myself to do it is debatable, but that I', even thinking of it shocks me. So much for right wing/GC parallels!

@WhatMattersMost

I think the cognitive dissonance is too high for some MNetters to concede even the possibility that some key members of the Conservative Party are indeed invested in women's rights.

Quite. I have to believe that at least one of the mainstream UK parties wants the votes of 51% of the population. We are really not asking for much are we? Just for our existing sex-based rights to be upheld.

@Reptar

I don't understand this insistence that this party or that are standing up for women; none of them are.

Wasn't it Penny Mordaunt who said in the HOC that trans women are women? The Conservatives have been actively pushing this agenda - not just turning a blind eye but actually enabling it - and its been enthusiastically taken up by all the mainstream parties, who either don't understand equality law or don't think it should exist.

I think you will find they are now back tracking but people like Mordaunt are still allowed to believe the impossible if they wish. It is her view rather than the party's view I would say. Were I in her constituency, it would make it very hard to vote for her, as any woman should know better given their lived experience. It is sad that I would prefer to be represented by a man who understands biological reality than a woman who doesn't.

www.heritage.org/nuclear-energy/commentary/liberty-justice-all-conversation-sam-brinton-deep-isolation-and-the

Here's a trans non binary person aligning with the right wing conservative Heritage Foundation.

Mmm.

Blueberry

P.S. does the Blue in your name indicate that you are usually a Conservative voter?

Potholes, that's perfect!

I can’t wait for the movie of all this to be made, when Blueberry is played by Jane Horrocks’ character from Life Is Sweet.

“Tory! Fascist! Quack quack!”

@Beamur

It's always about votes. But I agree there are some principled women in the Conservative party.

Yes there are! Ones who have stuck their neck out for quite a while now and have been involved in GC arguments.

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

eh? I am GC and was raised in a labour seat, family voted labour all my life. I was told to leave the Labour Party because I I didnt believe men could magically turn in to women.

Big Pharma of hormone suppressants have already paid the Lib Dems millions to promote TWAW and I wouldn't be surprised if Labour have accepted similar.

Its not normal for adult people to pretend that men can turn in to women, in fact its unhinged. Because we all know they cant. Its impossible. Labour and Lib Dems are unhinged and they will never win an election whilst they are peddling these lies and trying to gas light us.

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

Criticism of gender stereotypes is right wing? All those first and second wave feminists were conservative?

Well blow me, every day is a school day. I always though of reinforcing gender as a traditionalist viewpoint.

I must have missed the pope, the archbishop of Canterbury, big business, Churchill and Thatcher all being GNC and speaking up for gender neutral toys and women in tech.

@charliesbookmarker

Because they're Conservatives, and GC is a conservative/right wing movement

eh? I am GC and was raised in a labour seat, family voted labour all my life. I was told to leave the Labour Party because I I didnt believe men could magically turn in to women.

Big Pharma of hormone suppressants have already paid the Lib Dems millions to promote TWAW and I wouldn't be surprised if Labour have accepted similar.

Its not normal for adult people to pretend that men can turn in to women, in fact its unhinged. Because we all know they cant. Its impossible. Labour and Lib Dems are unhinged and they will never win an election whilst they are peddling these lies and trying to gas light us.

Talking of the LibDems, here's one member today.

Tweet 1
No but that would be irrelevant.

If they offend at the same rate as other men they're still women and it's their space too.

The overwhelming majority, even if they offend at the same rate as men, are safe the overwhelming majority of the time, even at those rates.

Tweet 2
Plus there's barely any of them so the actual change to risk is small.

You can't exclude one subcategory of women based on them having the same offence rates as men, basically.
twitter.com/LibDemStephen/status/1454017800431886343?t=a9xhwY8U-fi9w2zf94TdQA&s=19
Screenshots if he deletes here

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1454055249111572484?t=2itu02Y0Cj03Bqygfc0DLg&s=19

Isn't it just because a huge tranche of right-wing actual bigots are genuinely transphobic and against all trans rights full stop. And it seems to blow many people's minds that someone could be generally left leaning, and support the vast majority of trans rights, but still have some very specific concerns about ensuring women's rights are not simultaneously eradicated?

So it's easier just to believe that anyone who isn't a staunch, flag waving "ally" must be a right-wing bigot (apologies to those who are sick of the word bigot! I'm just parroting here really)

And as for the concept that some TRAs might themselves be far right, well that's apparently completely incomprehensible.

The idea that transwomen might have a history of being extremely right-wing seems to break people's minds.

Take, for example, Donna Langen, formerly Peter Langen.

extract from wikipedia

TheAryan Republican Army(ARA), also dubbed "The Midwest Bank bandits" by the FBI and law-enforcement, were a white nationalist terrorist gang[1]who robbed a series of 22 banks in theMidwestfrom 1994 to 1996 spearheaded by frontman Peter Kevin Langan.[2] The gang who had links toNeo-Nazismandwhite supremacism, were alleged to have conspired with convicted terroristTimothy McVeighin the months before theOklahoma City bombingterrorist attack.[3][4]Although never legally acknowledged, many theorists believe the ARA funneled robbery money to help fund the bombing as a direct response to theWacoandRuby Ridgesieges.[5]

(Continues)

On January 18, 1996, theFBIarrested Langan. Langan is now a transgender woman, Donna, and has since publicly renounced her political and racist views. After 18 years in a male prison, Donna was transferred to a female penitentiary after a legal fight in 2014 during the Obama administration. In 2017 Donna and 435 other transgender inmates from female prisons led an LGBT activist group in an effort to challenge the Trump administration's positions regarding transgender prisoners.

From: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Republican_Army

This is a transman who was spared a prison sentence for taking part in Neo-Nazi activity, on account of their gender identity.

extract from March 2021

SEATTLE -- A federal judge declined to impose prison time Wednesday on a former member of a neo-Nazi ring that threatened journalists, finding that the 21-year-old — who concealed his transgender identity from his co-conspirators — had already suffered enough in his young life.

Taylor Parker-Dipeppe, of Spring Hill, Florida, was charged in early 2020 along with three other members of the Atomwaffen Division, a white supremacist group.

Investigators said they left or attempted to leave Swastika-laden posters with messages like “You have been visited by your local Nazis” at the homes of journalists in Florida, Arizona and Washington state.

Parker-Dipeppe pleaded guilty in September to conspiracy to mail threatening communications and to commit cyberstalking.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas Woods acknowledged his troubled childhood, but sought a prison term of 16 months, writing in a sentencing memo that Parker-Dipeppe “instilled terror in his victims and contributed to the wide sense of fear and unease that many groups in this country understandably feel.”

Continues: abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/prison-time-transgender-neo-nazi-threat-case-76796612